Opinions on Bullet Designs

[Tech4]

Yes, wouldn't that be nice.

 

[nimrod_gn]

I dont have any bullets to suggest but I will suggest you do some serious combing through this website If I remember correctly it establishes something to the tune of "the only consistent predictor of lethality is size of permanent wound channel through cardio pulmonary tissue." It is extremely informative and written by a very legitimate author. I believe a balastician at Sandia national labs. My biggest take from it was that I would much prefer to send bits of bullet on lines tangential to the path of the bullet in order to reach out and find good bits than to use a bullet that makes a nice deep straight channel no matter what. (there are certainly scenarios when I would choose penetration over fragmentation but they are more the exception than the rule)

http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/wounding.html

the ballistic studies website has some great write ups on bullet design and performance. it is a great source to cross check information from this message board. His write ups typically assess a bullets ability both to penetrate and to "reach out"

Hammer bullets are based upon this research. they are awesome!

 

[JIsbell40]

Most deer are kill inside of 100 where I hunt and they shoot through the deer we have. It is what we are seeing apparently you are seeing something different.

I've had eldm and ELDx both do extremely short explosive wounds at high speed impacts. Bergers not as much but I've had some Bergers pencil through at low impacts. Pick your poison I guess

 

[73driver]

I've had eldm and ELDx both do extremely short explosive wounds at high speed impacts. Bergers not as much but I've had some Bergers pencil through at low impacts. Pick your poison I guess

What speed have you experienced this? 3000 fps +? 2800 fps or lower?

 

[LVJ76]

I've never shot a coues deer with the Partition, but I have shot a few antelope with the 180-grain 30 caliber. All expanded well enough, and the animals all dropped on the spot. One actually had a piece of its liver blown right out of its body, and we found it hanging behind the buck on a tall sagebrush. The exit wound didn't look anywhere near big enough for this chunk of liver to come through, but there it was.

The couple of coues deer that I have shot were about the same size & build as a buck antelope, or maybe just a bit smaller. I think the bone structure may be a bit lighter on the deer. I shot one with a 30-06 Ackley and the 180-grain A-Frame, which expanded quite well. The other was shot with the outfitter's rifle, and his load was the 168-grain Sierra Match King in a 300 Weatherby. I shot the buck at 410 yards, and the bullet made a pretty small hole in the deer - the exit wound looked just like the entry. Lungs were not badly scrambled - just a hole all the way through. I was expecting lung soup, but such was not the case. The deer dropped on the spot, though, so I guess that a small hole was big enough.

Your 130-grain 270's may be a bit too stiff for these little deer. I've shot a bunch of smallish whitetails in the northeast with Partitions, and all have shown good expansion. Lighter 30-caliber partitions ( 150-grain ) have only exited about 50% of the time, while the 180's have always passed all the way through these animals. Exit wounds have been around the size of a nickel, unless the bullet hit the shoulder on the way out. That's about all I know about that, Sir.

We had a couple of cases where the partitions failed to expand but short after that we changed to a 280 Rem and a 7mm-08's, and we changed to ballistic tips and later on to SST's, no issues since

 

[JIsbell40]

What speed have you experienced this? 3000 fps +? 2800 fps or lower?

Above 3000fps I get nearly no exits. At 2800 FPS on large bucks it's 50/50. Ive notice no difference in the X and the M. On over 100 animals shot and recovered and skinned. At lower impacts they act great but at high impacts they are very explosive for me.

 

[MajorSpittle]

Above 3000fps I get nearly no exits. At 2800 FPS on large bucks it's 50/50. Ive notice no difference in the X and the M. On over 100 animals shot and recovered and skinned. At lower impacts they act great but at high impacts they are very explosive for me.

What caliber were you shooting?
How do you think a 208 ELD-M would do on ELK at 75yrds when launched at 2650fps?

 

[73driver]

Above 3000fps I get nearly no exits. At 2800 FPS on large bucks it's 50/50. Ive notice no difference in the X and the M. On over 100 animals shot and recovered and skinned. At lower impacts they act great but at high impacts they are very explosive for me.

Thanks for info. I have limited experience with ELD-X but lots of experience with SST and SGK which are of similar or less robust construction. 277 and 308 cal bullets starting at 2950 at least & hitting at 60 to 300 yards on dozens of deer with good expansion and pass through with clean kills. Out of 270 WIN and 30-06 for me so always curious when others say they are experiencing explosive and less than desirable performance.

 

[LVJ76]

Thanks for info. I have limited experience with ELD-X but lots of experience with SST and SGK which are of similar or less robust construction. 277 and 308 cal bullets starting at 2950 at least & hitting at 60 to 300 yards on dozens of deer with good expansion and pass through with clean kills. Out of 270 WIN and 30-06 for me so always curious when others say they are experiencing explosive and less than desirable performance.

Depends how you use them, for example, the 139gr SST out if my 7mm-08's pushed at 2,800 fps is deadly, from 50 to 550 yds, but pushed at 3,200 out of my 7mm Rem Mag it will blow up at close range. Now the 162gr SST pn the 7 Rem Mag is a great killer from 50 to 700 yds

On magnum cartridges heavy for caliber bullets work best, or go with a bonded if you want a lighter bullet.

 

[JIsbell40]

What caliber were you shooting?
How do you think a 208 ELD-M would do on ELK at 75yrds when launched at 2650fps?

30" 300wby 3320 fps rl 26 for the 208s. 162 ELDx and eldm in a 7 wsm 3190fps rl23.

I think the 208 would do excellent at that impact speed. My elk hunts though I bring a accubond or partition

 

[nicholasjohn]

Depends how you use them, for example, the 139gr SST out if my 7mm-08's pushed at 2,800 fps is deadly, from 50 to 550 yds, but pushed at 3,200 out of my 7mm Rem Mag it will blow up at close range. Now the 162gr SST pn the 7 Rem Mag is a great killer from 50 to 700 yds

On magnum cartridges heavy for caliber bullets work best, or go with a bonded if you want a lighter bullet.

My guess is that they build the 162's with a heavier jacket, since most guys are going to use them in a bigger/faster cartridge. The 7mm-08 probably pushes the lighter bullet to about the same velocity as the heavier one exits the 7mm magnums, and they probably designed both bullets to operate at about the same impact velocity.

Years ago, I got a little tired of the way the 150-grain bullets were blowing up the shoulders of deer I was shooting with them. My buddy Santo told me how his father was using 180's on deer, and having none of that. I switched to the heavier bullet, and got the same results - less meat damage; same quick kills. Trajectories were nothing special out of my 308, but I wasn't shooting much past 200 yards anyway.

The trick here, I think, is to try different bullets and see how they work. It takes a lot of hunting seasons to gather much experience, but this forum is a good place to get a lot of second-hand experience. The general consensus seems to be that when you don't like the way a certain bullet design works, going one level heavier often fixes the problem.

 

[73driver]

My guess is that they build the 162's with a heavier jacket, since most guys are going to use them in a bigger/faster cartridge. The 7mm-08 probably pushes the lighter bullet to about the same velocity as the heavier one exits the 7mm magnums, and they probably designed both bullets to operate at about the same impact velocity.

Years ago, I got a little tired of the way the 150-grain bullets were blowing up the shoulders of deer I was shooting with them. My buddy Santo told me how his father was using 180's on deer, and having none of that. I switched to the heavier bullet, and got the same results - less meat damage; same quick kills. Trajectories were nothing special out of my 308, but I wasn't shooting much past 200 yards anyway.

The trick here, I think, is to try different bullets and see how they work. It takes a lot of hunting seasons to gather much experience, but this forum is a good place to get a lot of second-hand experience. The general consensus seems to be that when you don't like the way a certain bullet design works, going one level heavier often fixes the problem.

I agree, I like heavier for caliber out of the std cartridges 30-06 180's, 280 150's, 270 140's. I agree with the Hornady choice of ELD-X bullet weights for the 06/178gr, 280/150gr & 270/145gr.

 

[JIsbell40]

Try a normal accubond in the 200 grain in the big 30 cals. A 160 28 cal accubond has never let me down. 0-800 yards even when pushed from a 7mm rum @ 3350. They find a way to exit and the internal damage always gets a clean kill. Below 2000 fps impacts you're better off with a match bullet.

 

[LVJ76]

My guess is that they build the 162's with a heavier jacket, since most guys are going to use them in a bigger/faster cartridge. The 7mm-08 probably pushes the lighter bullet to about the same velocity as the heavier one exits the 7mm magnums, and they probably designed both bullets to operate at about the same impact velocity.

Years ago, I got a little tired of the way the 150-grain bullets were blowing up the shoulders of deer I was shooting with them. My buddy Santo told me how his father was using 180's on deer, and having none of that. I switched to the heavier bullet, and got the same results - less meat damage; same quick kills. Trajectories were nothing special out of my 308, but I wasn't shooting much past 200 yards anyway.

The trick here, I think, is to try different bullets and see how they work. It takes a lot of hunting seasons to gather much experience, but this forum is a good place to get a lot of second-hand experience. The general consensus seems to be that when you don't like the way a certain bullet design works, going one level heavier often fixes the problem.

Yes agreed, heavier bullets are tougher and are better and as an example I learned recently from member @FEENIX is that on my 7mm-08 I can use the 139gr SST which I love but I can also use the 162gr A-Max and both are good out to 500m, although heavier but with the higher BC both are at or above 1,800 fps and at or above 1,000 ft/lbs of energy at this distance.

The exception are bonded bullets, no issues with lighter ones except just more meat damage