OK, My turn on the 6.5 Creedmoor

[MudRunner2005]

The car is 2000 lbs lighter so inherently faster assuming engine tranny tires gearing etc is the same.
Ok apples to apples All things being equal. Barrels stocks bedding jobs gunsmiths actions etc the 6br is inherently accurate compared to a 30-30. It's the design of the case that makes is more efficient which efficiency is consistency and consistency is accuracy. The 6br has good powder capacity to caliber and bullet weight. It was designed to be inherently more accurate and it does a good job as doing what it was designed for.

How is it more accurate? Have you never seen a custom (like you're describing) non-lever action .30-30 shoot good? I have...

It might be more efficient. It might have a better shoulder angle. It might have a better case design creating a more efficient burn, more pressure, therefore being more high-performance, but that doesn't mean it has jack-crap to do with its chances of being more accurate than the exact same rifle chambered for another cartridge.

 

[Gord0]

How is it more accurate? Have you never seen a custom (like you're describing) non-lever action .30-30 shoot good? I have...

It might be more efficient. It might have a better shoulder angle. It might have a better case design creating a more efficient burn, more pressure, therefore being more high-performance, but that doesn't mean it has jack-crap to do with its chances of being more accurate than the exact same rifle chambered for another cartridge.

Take a bench gun and instead of chambering it in 30br, chamber it in 30-30. Then match prep all your brass and load like you would 30br. I'd be willing to bet it would be just as accurate. Because there's no such thing as an inherently accurate cartridge!

 

[MudRunner2005]

Take a bench gun and instead of chambering it in 30br, chamber it in 30-30. Then match prep all your brass and load like you would 30br. I'd be willing to bet it would be just as accurate. Because there's no such thing as an inherently accurate cartridge!

My dad's old 1950's JM-stamped .30-30 Marlin went from a 3" gun, to a 1.5" gun @ 100, just from swapping to the new (at the time) Hornady LeverEvolution factory ammo. With handloads and those same FTX bullets, I bet I could get it well below MOA. Someday I will tinker with it, but a Marlin .30-30 shooting 1.5" at 100 is more than good enough for Alabama deer hunting if I ever took it out in the woods again. I doubt that gun has been in the woods in 20+ years, ever since I started using bolt-actions. It's been in the family for 40+.

 

[Mach 1]

How is it more accurate? Have you never seen a custom (like you're describing) non-lever action .30-30 shoot good? I have...

It might be more efficient. It might have a better shoulder angle. It might have a better case design creating a more efficient burn, more pressure, therefore being more high-performance, but that doesn't mean it has jack-crap to do with its chances of being more accurate than the exact same rifle chambered for another cartridge.

Yes it really does, how many cartridges do you see other than the br family of cases shooting ibs 1000 yard National matches? One maybe 2 at most out of the top 10. Why is that? Bc the br family of cases are inherently accurate compared to other cartridges. The 6ppc and 30br also have the specific places in the target world, bc there are inherently more accurate than standard rounds

 

[Mach 1]

Take a bench gun and instead of chambering it in 30br, chamber it in 30-30. Then match prep all your brass and load like you would 30br. I'd be willing to bet it would be just as accurate. Because there's no such thing as an inherently accurate cartridge!

Sure there is and a 30-30 does not have the ability to be as accurate as the 30br at 2 or 3 hundred yards. The br family of cases are designed to punch paper and win br matches. The br family of cases holds all sorts of benchrest records. The 30-30 holds how many benchrest records? U may say that People don't use it, well that is because its not inherently accurate by design like the br cases. People in the benchrest world know what works. By all means build a benchgun chambered in 30-30 and prove me wrong if you want.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Yes it really does, how many cartridges do you see other than the br family of cases shooting ibs 1000 yard National matches? One maybe 2 at most out of the top 10. Why is that? Bc the br family of cases are inherently accurate compared to other cartridges. The 6ppc and 30br also have the specific places in the target world, bc there are inherently more accurate than standard rounds

Lots of magnums are still setting records every year at 1K BR comps... The .300 Wby and .300 Ackley (.300 Wby Imp.), .300 WinMag, .308 Win, all of these hold and have held, or are still setting records or winning comps, or placing in the top 10 every year all over the country. I'm sure some 6.5-something is winning because it's more popular NOW than it was previously, but that doesn't mean it's more accurate, just means with more of them out there, there's more of a chance for one to win. Power of ratios.

If "inherent accuracy" was real, then all of these recently so-hated belted cases wouldn't still be relevant, right?

If certain cases are more accurate, you should test that theory by setting up 2 identical SMOOTH-BORE 6.5mm barrel blank rail-guns chambered in 2 different similar capacity 6.5mm cartridges (6.5CM vs. .260 Rem), loading them to the exact same velocity, and testing their accuracy @ 100 yards. I say rail guns so there's no human error to factor in, because it's bolted into a 75-100 lb. metal sled and fired by remote. If one of them shoots significantly better than the other @ 100 yards, then I'll consider admitting that the theory of "inherent accuracy" is plausible. I said plausible, not definitively. Just wanting to clarify that.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Sure there is and a 30-30 does not have the ability to be as accurate as the 30br at 2 or 3 hundred yards. The br family of cases are designed to punch paper and win br matches. The br family of cases holds all sorts of benchrest records. The 30-30 holds how many benchrest records? U may say that People don't use it, well that is because its not inherently accurate by design like the br cases. People in the benchrest world know what works. By all means build a benchgun chambered in 30-30 and prove me wrong if you want.

What about the old .300 H&H and .30-06 Springfield that have won their fair share of 1000 yard BR comps? Those are 100+ year old case designs...

http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?95849-Why-I-Shoot-the-30-30-in-Benchrest

After winning the championship, Andy Lyda wanted to give me a hard time about my 6BR. Same question, "why"? He said the PPC is more accurate. I said "I don't see that, and my 6BR drifts less". I turned things around by saying that I could out shoot him with any caliber, even a 30-30. He told me to put my money where my mouth is, saying, "if you show up with a 30-30 next year, you will get laughed of the range". The next year we shot 8 matches. The 30-30 won the championship, beating Andy all 8 matches. My load was 38gr of IMR4320 behind a 150gr Sierra Matchking at 2800fps.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=541133

Post #12

The question can be answered a couple of ways.

"What is the most accurate 1000 yard deer caliber"

Could be answered with "30-30 Win" as it can reach a 1000 yards, but has set a number of accuracy records in the Shutzen discipline that lasted for decades.

So I'll have to say the "30-30 Win" is the most accurate 1000 yard deer caliber.

 

[WildBillG]

Mud Runner don't forget the old 45-70 it held the 1000yd record for a long time. I have a Marlin now that will put 3 shots into .387 inch group at 100yds. To top that it is one after they were supposedly ruined by Remington buying them.

 

[Mach 1]

Lots of magnums are still setting records every year at 1K BR comps... The .300 Wby and .300 Ackley (.300 Wby Imp.), .300 WinMag, .308 Win, all of these hold and have held, or are still setting records or winning comps, or placing in the top 10 every year all over the country. I'm sure some 6.5-something is winning because it's more popular NOW than it was previously, but that doesn't mean it's more accurate, just means with more of them out there, there's more of a chance for one to win. Power of ratios.

If "inherent accuracy" was real, then all of these recently so-hated belted cases wouldn't still be relevant, right?

If certain cases are more accurate, you should test that theory by setting up 2 identical SMOOTH-BORE 6.5mm barrel blank rail-guns chambered in 2 different similar capacity 6.5mm cartridges (6.5CM vs. .260 Rem), loading them to the exact same velocity, and testing their accuracy @ 100 yards. I say rail guns so there's no human error to factor in, because it's bolted into a 75-100 lb. metal sled and fired by remote. If one of them shoots significantly better than the other @ 100 yards, then I'll consider admitting that the theory of "inherent accuracy" is plausible. I said plausible, not definitively. Just wanting to clarify that.

None of the cartridges you've mentioned have placed in the top 10 at the lbs nationals in 2018 or 2017 in either heavy gun or light gun. I didnt go back past 2017 since there was no point. And that's bc if they did shoot those cartridges against the current winning cartridges the cartridges you mentioned would not be competitive. Do all the smoothbore tests you want lol that makes no sense.

 

[Mach 1]

What about the old .300 H&H and .30-06 Springfield that have won their fair share of 1000 yard BR comps? Those are 100+ year old case designs...

http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?95849-Why-I-Shoot-the-30-30-in-Benchrest
At one time my old model 99 savage in 250-3000 was one of the fastest rounds in production. Safe to say that's no longer the case. Dosent mean it's not a good round, times move on and technology gets better and better. 308 held a crap ton of records at one time, the key phrase there is "at one time"


https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=541133

Post #12

 

[MudRunner2005]

None of the cartridges you've mentioned have placed in the top 10 at the lbs nationals in 2018 or 2017 in either heavy gun or light gun. I didnt go back past 2017 since there was no point. And that's bc if they did shoot those cartridges against the current winning cartridges the cartridges you mentioned would not be competitive. Do all the smoothbore tests you want lol that makes no sense.

So, the last 2 years are all that matters, even though 1K BR comps have been going on for 60+ years? Now I see why you stopped at 2017... The TRUTH!

2009, Williamsport 1K record... .300 Weatherby.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2009/05/ken-brucklacher-sets-1000-yard-score-record-100-8x/

For SEVEN YEARS (2009-2016), the IBS 1000 yard world record was held by a custom .300 Ackley, and it wasn't until 2016 that someone broke the record.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...ets-new-ibs-1000-yard-heavy-gun-world-record/

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2017/11/water-cooled-wondergun-set-1000-yard-ibs-record/

 

[Mach 1]

So, the last 2 years are all that matters, even though 1K BR comps have been going on for 60+ years? Now I see why you stopped at 2017... The TRUTH!

2009, Williamsport 1K record... .300 Weatherby.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2009/05/ken-brucklacher-sets-1000-yard-score-record-100-8x/

For SEVEN YEARS (2009-2016), the IBS 1000 yard world record was held by a custom .300 Ackley, and it wasn't until 2016 that someone broke the record.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...ets-new-ibs-1000-yard-heavy-gun-world-record/

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2017/11/water-cooled-wondergun-set-1000-yard-ibs-record/

Your proving my point. Those guns and cartridges are not competitive anymore. If they were still competitive people would still use them but they don't........ I welcome you to shoot a 300 ackley improved in 1000 matches on the national level but you won't bc you don't want to loose and I don't blame you.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Your proving my point. Those guns and cartridges are not competitive anymore. If they were still competitive people would still use them but they don't........ I welcome you to shoot a 300 ackley improved in 1000 matches on the national level but you won't bc you don't want to loose and I don't blame you.

No, it's because I don't have any money. I have had a .300 Ackley since 2014, but it's setup for LRH, not BR comps. I'm not worried about losing. People lose...If you're not first, you're last. How am I proving your point? You still can't prove to me that cartridges that have been around for 20 years, are now all of a sudden relevant in the last 2-5 years, and cartridges that have been winning and holding records for 60 years, are no longer relevant. So, you're telling me that the precious .300 WinMag is irrelevant because it has a belt and long action body, heavy wall taper, a long shoulder angle, and a short neck? Last I heard, it's still being raved about for long range shooting/hunting...

 

[Mach 1]

So, the last 2 years are all that matters, even though 1K BR comps have been going on for 60+ years? Now I see why you stopped at 2017... The TRUTH!

2009, Williamsport 1K record... .300 Weatherby.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2009/05/ken-brucklacher-sets-1000-yard-score-record-100-8x/

For SEVEN YEARS (2009-2016), the IBS 1000 yard world record was held by a custom .300 Ackley, and it wasn't until 2016 that someone broke the record.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...ets-new-ibs-1000-yard-heavy-gun-world-record/

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2017/11/water-cooled-wondergun-set-1000-yard-ibs-record/

By bringing up the ackley improved argument you prove my point. The 300 ackley improved is inherently more accurate ,by design, than the standard unmodufied 300 case. Whether It be more powder capacity for added velocity for less wind drift at 1000 yards or changingbthe shoulder
Angles to make the case more efficient to help the burn rate of the powder. Either way it makes that cartridge INHERENTLY more accurate than the previous unmodified case.