Ok I am not a big fan of the 6.5 Creedmore

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73driver said:
Mud, could you be any more obtuse? I just referred you to apples to apples. Go to Hornady and compare the 06 178 ELD-X load to their 7mm Rem Mag 162 ELD-X. Heck I even gave you the numbers in the post. I can not help it if you fail to deal with reality.
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No, but I could definitely be more acute... :rolleyes:

Do you own both? Have you compared them and ran numbers side-by-side at the range with a chronograph, and ran dope charts and drops and wind age for both for LR shooting? Or are you simply arguing, using someone else's numbers (that are probably off), to try to hold onto some old school legacy by refusing to accept the reality that the .30-06 isn't even in the same league as the 7mmRM?

It's perfectly acceptable to have a personal choice, and a favorite, but don't let rose colored glasses blind you from reality.
 
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When I lived out in Colorado I was hunting in Gunnison and ran across some guides one night at a local steak house. They all contested they would rather see some shooting a 270 that could hit what they were aiming at then any of the supper over bore magnums. My self I have a 300RUM so I like the over bore magnums but I practice and shoot at 1000 yards a lot when I'm out shooting. With that said my favorite shooting gun is my 6.5X284 Norma. It did shoot very smooth and was very consistent with low recoil. My RUM shoot almost as good but if I had only one It would be a hard decision to make. The barrel is shout out on the 6.5 now and needs to be replaced. I think next it will be a 6.5 wild cat round or a 280/7mm wildcat round since its a long action. For as the 300 Rum its got me my longest kill to date and once it worn out it's going to be a 338 edge or if the new hopefully soon to release 240ish or 250ish 30 cal's come out, I may stay with the 300 with something in a 1-8 twist. But the 300 grains pills are hard to beat for long range knock down.
 
MudRunner2005 said:
No I didn't... Maybe someone else did, but not me.
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MudRunner2005 said:
If you want a true comparison, you need to compare proper weight-for-caliber bullets,
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"Sectional density (SD) is the numerical result of a calculation that compares a bullet's weight to its diameter. To calculate a bullet's sectional density divide the bullet's weight (in pounds) by its diameter (in inches), squared. The higher the SD number the better the SD and the heavier a bullet is in proportion to its diameter. SD stays the same for all bullets of the same weight in the same caliber; shape does not affect SD."

In other words, weight for caliber...
 
MudRunner2005 said:
are you simply arguing, using someone else's numbers (that are probably off), to try to hold onto some old school legacy by refusing to accept the reality that the .30-06 isn't even in the same league as the 7mmRM?
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Using your numbers and my numbers ; 7mm 168VLD @ MV 3115 fps VS 30-06 180 Sierra BTGK @ MV 2800 fps. Now we agree that in all categories the 7MAG does run ahead of the old 06 in all categories. My point is that in all ways that count, sufficient energy to bring down game and bullet drop that has to be adjusted for the 06 for practical purposes, out to 400 yards, does not lag in a meaningful way. Using a PBR zero of 3 inches hi and 3 inches low the 06 has PBR of 280 yds the 7mm PBR 312 a whole 30 yards. At 300 yards the 06 drops only 2.5 inches more let's say that again only 2.5 inches @ 300 yds. At 350 the 06 only 4.4 more inches (6 inch for 7mm vs 10.4 inch for 06). At 400 yards 7mm drop 11.3 and 06 17.5 at 400 ONLY 6 inches more . Now the energy at 400 yards is where we see the biggest difference 7mm energy 2451 ft.lbs. vs 06 1949 ft.lbs. Now most discussions I have followed state that 2000 ft.lbs. is what you want to bring down an Elk, yes I agree more is better but it seems accepted that 2000 ft.lbs. does the job. So for in the field practice both the 7mm shooter and the06 shooter need to know if their target is at 300 yards the 7mm guy needs to know he is at his PBR limit and the 06 guy needs to know so he makes and adjustment for BEING a WHOLE 2 INCHES out of PBR. Both hunters need to know if their target is at 350 yards. Both hunters need to make adjustments at 350 yards 7mm .5 mils 06 .8 mils A WHOLE 3 more CLIKS for the 06. At 400 yards both shooters need an accurate range and need to make adjustments 7mm .8 mils and 06 1.1 mils WOW 06 guy HAS to CLIK 3 more clicks.

So what we have is that both hunters need to determine 300-350-400 yards. Both hunters need to make adjustments at 350-400 yards (only minor adjustment for 06 guy at 300 yards) and 06 guy has sufficient energy remaining to bring down an Elk. So all that MV from the 7mm does not equate to that much flatter shooting out to 400 yards when using a PBR sight in of 3 inch hi 3 inch low. I know -YES BUT- yes energy is different. As far as flat shooting the 06 guy has only one thing to do that the 7mm does not (out to 400 yards) and that is 06 guy has to dial a couple mils at 300 yards. At 350 yards both have to dial similar amounts of correction and at 400 yards the same thing.
 
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Bingo,,, my shooting partner took a crack at a Wolf last winter at 500+ yards,,, his 175gr boolit hit the ground low at 4 ish feet,,, he soon realized that even his 7mm Remington Mag needs a bit of hold over. Ha

I would of needed a fraction more with my 30/06 180gr booltiz,,, but not a whole lot...

Were his unit shines is from the 500 mark on out,,, but even then the path of trajectory is going down,,, all boolitz do this,,, even the 65's need Windage or dial up to hit things at distance...

One thing that brought the old school 308 back on course for shooters is,,,, range doping reticles,,, our job is to range the distance,,,, the reticle mileage bar gives us a spot in the optical to aim...

My 300 Weatherby Mag could of benefited from theses kind of optics,,, but I got lucky more than once ranging my hits... Those 190 GS boolitz sure drop fast past the 600 meter mark
 
I don't think anyone has ever debated that you don't have to adjust for bullet drop... That would be beyond stupid for someone to say. All bullets follow an arc pattern thanks to gravity, and the fact there is no external force pushing it once it leaves the muzzle, so of course you will have to hold-over, or dial a reticle...I figured that was a given.
 
I think his point is that for a hunter who uses the mpbr method, the 7mm's advantage is not all that substantial. Now for someone going out further, absolutely. If not for drop, than wind drift. What's the marksman's saying, "wind is the enemy of precision"?
 
What is the MPBR method? Also, if all you ever hunt is inside of 400 yards, then why even worry about drop? Or even cartridge comparison for that matter? If it's larger than a .243 and smaller than a .50 BMG, it's going to kill just about anything inside of 400 yards with good shot placement.

Just set your scope 2.5" high at 100 and it becomes a point & click interface... I'm seriously not understanding how this has become a full-blown argument, when it's something that was common knowledge 20 years ago.
 
MudRunner2005 said:
What is the MPBR method?
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Maximum Point Blank Range. You know like I have been posting. The method I have been talking about is 3 inches hi and 3 inches low. For my last post the 7mm Mag using your 168VLD at 3115 fps drops 3 inches at about 312 yards the 30-06 3 inch drop occurred at 280 yards.
 
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