Notes on the Centenerian

[George Dean]

Shooters disregard the 30-06 because they hear that a .308 is so close to it as to make no difference, not because of any experience with reloading in general.

The 30-06 has 21% more case capacity of a .308 . That puts it nowhere close. When the manufacturers figures put .308 ballistics close to a 30-06, the pressure of the .308 is running higher than for the 30-06, so it is not an equal comparison. The 30-06 can approach the low end of the .30 magnums with equivalent bullet weights, which a .308 simply cannot.

The design of the 30-06 case lends itself to excellent accuracy potential. The ratio of the neck length to bore size is high for caliber, and exceeds the .30 caliber magnums. This means the bullet can be seated clear of the powder column, which is great for performance and accuracy.

When knocking 30-06 performance capability as "old wives tales" and "myths" of "special powers" , please save the yarn and try get to the numbers. Stick to quoting verifiable numbers.

There is nothing new from cartridges ballistically . A lot of cartridges duplicate each other's ballistics with specific bullet weights. The real innovations have been in bullet manufacture and platform evolution, giving us the long range capability that we have today.

The 30-06 should not be compared to any Creedmoor. Creedmoor calibers were designed with a shorter powder column to reduce recoil for target shooters - specifically to keep the scope on target after the shot. To compensate for the reduced powder capacity, the cartridge was mated to high BC bullets to reduce drop at long distance. This does not equate to terminal performance at long distance.

Taking the centenarian, loading it with the right powder, and mating it to suitable high BC bullets will give very interesting results.

The 30-06 cartridge is just under-rated, it is not inferior.

Can't we all just sing NATO together and agree that both have their place in the world.

All one could ever want to know about the .308: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.308_Winchester

 

[MudRunner2005]

As you stated ..can't wait for the festivities...so just my 2 cents..."..if the old school design was that good...why doesn't everyone use them "...they actually do! Every straight wall case made today follows the ORIGINAL FIRST STRAIGHT WALL...EVERY BELTED CASE .. follows the ORIGINAL belted and every shoulder case follows the original shoulder case.....they may have all improved in materials and wall thickness... and capacity....but so has gunpowder...did not all gunpowder EVOLVE from the original gunpowder? The original anything lays the foundation for improvement and evolution.

I'm not talking about straight-wall or belts... Let's not throw this off-topic. I'm referring to the shoulder angles, neck length, and wall taper. Even straight-wall cases are nearly straight wall... The .30-06 has super heavy wall taper, it's made for positive extraction, but that is not necessary with today's technology...Especially for bolt-action rifles not being used in dangerous situations.

You're grasping for straws for validity. Your arguments about gunpowder and foundations are valid, but nobody is disputing that, that's pretty common knowledge. But just like you said, "foundations"... Foundations are meant to be built upon...To improve upon. Which they have, considerably from JMB's original design of the .30-06 Sprg. and .50 BMG cases.

 

[Huggy]

Ask Carlos Hathcock (WhiteFeather)
About the 30-06 . Model 70 . Legendary sniper in the Vietnam war .
My hero . He passed away in 1999 but his interviews are on you tube . Should watch them .
Nothing wrong with 308 ,,,, it's a 308 . My old hunting partner used a 3o-06 and yes it was his only hunting rifle .
Long live the 30-06!

Amen!
I'm not about to snipe words at a fellow hunter or target shooter for wanting the "latest and greatest" newfangled thingamajigger or whatchamabob if THEY want it.
More power to them and May The Force Be With You, IMO.
Do "I" need the latest Boolit Launcher that hits the market and which promises ME it will fill a game tag or bring me home the weekend match trophy all without me having to leave the comfort of my recliner?
Maybe.
Maybe not.
Personally, it is also about getting out into the wide open of Mother Nature and away from all the techno-garbage which is equally important to me.
But if I want it or feel it fills a "need" and can afford it, why not?!?
That said I own and have been shooting a Winchester M70 in .30-06 since I was a young pup some 5 decades or so ago and never once have I felt short changed or lacking when it came to harvesting deer or elk.
When I did MY part, I filled my freezer. When I happened to have a Brain Fa*t I had to keep hunting or go home skunked.
Plain and simple.
Now the good old -06 isn't the only rifle in my safe, either. Open either up you'll find everything from a .22LR all the way up to a .50BMG lounging.
Each has its own place in fulfilling a "need" or want or desire and each has been used to take game.
And each has been lugged home because the nut behind the scope Dumb-Thumbed something at the most inopportune time. I did it. I own it.
But for overall hunting needs of "big" game up to and including elk I find myself reaching for that well used and well-taken-care-of Model 70 in .30-06.
All things considered equal, as long as I do MY part I can bring home the bacon, so to speak.
So those who want to hunt with a .308, 6.5 whichever or something else, I applaud you and encourage you to do so and I'd NEVER find fault in your choice(s) as long as you aren't mortally wounding a game animal but unable to track it as a responsible hunter.
In the end when I'm hunting big game the .30-06 feels best to ME and it's what I have the most experience with. At all reasonable ranges if I put the crosshairs on an animal, it's coming home with me.
And at the end of the day, isn't that all that MATTERS?!?
Now then, if we want to shoot some of the other lesser known Johnny Come Lately guns, hey, I'm ALL for it because, as previously mentioned, variety is the spice of life after all. And the day you stop learning is the day you start to die.
As for me, working on my 7th decade, I'm not ready to toss in the towel yet.
For someone who is trying to decide which ONE rifle best fits his or her needs for hunting, you could do a LOT worse picking another caliber depending on the game.
It ain't perfect.
It ain't glamorous or sexy.
But when the rubber meets the road and as long as you do YOUR part, a quality rifle chambered in .30-06 might just be THE answer.
And as the old saying goes:
"Beware the shooter with but one rifle. They likely know how to use it and use it well!"
Therein endth the sermon.
Good Luck.
Good Hunting.
Good Target Shooting.
And,
God Bless.
Overnout.

 

[Joe16]

Two of the best cartridges ever....

.22LR and .30-06



load the .30-06 right and let it shine.

I wouldn't own a 308 if you gave it to me

 

[skipglo]

I'm not talking about straight-wall or belts... Let's not throw this off-topic. I'm referring to the shoulder angles, neck length, and wall taper. Even straight-wall cases are nearly straight wall... The .30-06 has super heavy wall taper, it's made for positive extraction, but that is not necessary with today's technology...Especially for bolt-action rifles not being used in dangerous situations.

You're grasping for straws for validity. Your arguments about gunpowder and foundations are valid, but nobody is disputing that, that's pretty common knowledge. But just like you said, "foundations"... Foundations are meant to be built upon...To improve upon. Which they have, considerably from JMB's original design of the .30-06 Sprg. and .50 BMG cases.

Exactly what I said! Thanks for re-iterating it!

 

[MudRunner2005]

Exactly what I said! Thanks for re-iterating it!

How is that exactly what you said?

 

[nicholasjohn]

I started out with a 30-06 40 years ago and switched to the 308 shortly after. In bullets 150 and under there is no difference, period. In the 165 a small edge for the 06 which is negligible. In 180 the 06 dominates. This is from a hand loaders perspective. Accuracy is rifle dependent but 308 kicks less and can be more effective in shorter, lighter platforms. But by no means is the 06 irrelevant!

I'm glad that somebody finally chimed in about this one. The 30-06 can be handloaded to get about the same velocity with the next higher increment of bullet weight. ( i.e., 165's go about as fast in the '06 as 150's do in the 308, etc.) I have used both cartridges extensively for decades, on deer, elk, and antelope. The only difference between the two that I have seen was when used on elk - the 30-06 works a little better, but only when heavier bullets are used. With any of the traditional 30-caliber bullet weights, deer can't tell the difference - both cartridges are unnecessarily powerful for 150-pound animals. That said, I still think that using one's elk rifle for deer & antelope is a VERY good idea, since switching rifles three times each hunting season can be troublesome.

Elk seem to be the better animal for judging bullet and cartridge performance, since they are large enough for extra bullet weight to matter. Some guys like to use the lighter bullets for antelope to flatten trajectories, and that's fine & dandy. I prefer 180's for elk, which come out of a 30-06 noticeably faster than the 308 can shoot them. I've never tried 200's in either cartridge, and I think that the 300 magnums are probably where that bullet weight would shine, not the '06.

In any case, these are both top-notch cartridges for most of our big game hunting, and whichever one you happen to have is the one to use. If it's an '06, you will have a little better versatility. If it's the 308, you may want to consider using the monolithic bullets that penetrate somewhat better than convention jacketed bullets, so that your 165's behave more like a heavier bullet. Another thing to keep in mind is that the retained velocity ( and energy ) at the target is what makes the difference, and an elk at 350 yards that just got whacked with a 30-06 is going to behave much like one that just took the same bullet out of a 308 at 300 - which is to say that it's going to CROAK.

 

[wonderman4]

So let me muddy the water a bit more...let's say I have .308 shooting a 180gr bullet at 2600 fps and have a 06 shooting the same bullet at the same speed. Which would have the advantage over the other? And more importantly.....why?

A question for you: Why would I want to choke down my '06 by 240 fps just to equal the balistics of the 308 Win?

 

[skipglo]

How is that exactly what you said?

Read your closing line...read mine....seems we agree 100%

 

[MudRunner2005]

A question for you: Why would I want to choke down my '06 by 240 fps just to equal the balistics of the 308 Win?

Why would anyone handicap their .30-06 by shooting anything less than a 180 in it? Why would you shoot a .308 Win with anything less than a 168 in it? Personally, I shoot everything form 168 to 215's in my .308 Win. My .30-06 AI is handicapped with a 12" twist barrel, so it has to stick around the 180-185 grain range, at most, so that's what I shoot in it.

Compare apples to apples, and equal pressures, same bullets, the .308 Win and .30-06 are not 240 FPS different... More like 150.

 

[Deleted member 48126]

Read your closing line...read mine....seems we agree 100%

Mudrunner will disagree with you on everything. Even if you agree on it!

He's a good guy. Just loves to challenge people.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Mudrunner will disagree with you on everything. Even if you agree on it!

He's a good guy. Just loves to challenge people.

I just like to know specifics of why people think the way they do... I understand feelings and nostalgia, but sentimental value doesn't factor into ballistics, function, design, and terminal performance. It's quite obvious these days (especially after the 2016 election) that majority of people can no longer distinguish between feelings and facts. It's almost like a devolution of the human mind. Very scary stuff.

 

[Counselor II]

Fellows, you're comparing apples and oranges. The .30-06 was designed for use in the 3 Springfield rifle which was a copy of the 1898 Mauser. The Springfield rifle was built under lisence from the Mauser company in Germany. The .30-06 was intended to be used in a bolt action repeating rifle.
The .308 Winchester a/k/a 7.62 Nato was designed in the 1950s to be placed in fully automatic weapons, both machine guns and rifles. The .308 is a .30-06 case shortened by 1/2 inch to serve better in rapidly reciprocating actions. It has served this purpose very well in the several machine guns for which it has been chambered and the M14 rifle.
The .308 is the successor to the .30-06 in the Military. We are civilians using these cartridges for civilian purposes. They should not be viewed as competitors, but as predecessor/successor cartridges. They both serve their purposes well.

 

[gator378]

I cant imagine anyone comparing the 308 to the 30/06 because like you, I feel that they are in a totally different group of cartridges.

It is still the standard for comparison for performance and recoil. It is also the basis for the 50 BMG design by John Browning (Dimensionally the 50 BMG is just a scaled up version of the 30/06).

There are many "New" designer cartridges that make claims of performance, that will never stand the test of time and sink into obscurity.

Its good to see someone defend some of the classic cartridges that still exist and perform as they were designed. sometimes we get caught up in the latest and greatest and forget where we came from.
With all the new powders and bullets, the 30/06 is far from dead and will perform as well or better than some when compared with like components and pressures.

Just My Opinion

J E CUSTOM

When the job has to be done and it a big job the 300 Weatherby comes out. End of discussion and end of problem. I love cannons.