Notes on the Centenerian

[bdlesh]

So let me muddy the water a bit more...let's say I have .308 shooting a 180gr bullet at 2600 fps and have a 06 shooting the same bullet at the same speed. Which would have the advantage over the other? And more importantly.....why?

 

[therifleman556]

You tell me...

 

[Wolf76]

The '06 is an interesting cartridge. Sort of good at many things, but great at nothing. Vs the 308, I don't consider the 1-2 hundred fps advantage significant enough to warrant a long action. If I need more HP than a 308, the '06 isn't the answer. You could make the "1 gun" arguement for the 06, but who wants 1 gun?
Watched a YouTube video the other day where a young hunter shot an elk at something less than 300 yards with a 6.5 CM. The bull was still alive for more than 2 minutes on video. Watched a 300 mag kill 2 bulls so fast, it dam near knocked their ivories out. No love for the misuse of the 6.5 on big game. Great deer and target round though.
I own an 06, mostly out of respect for the round. But I'll grab my 257 bee or 308 most often for deer or 300 - 338 something mag for elk.

 

[serpnt]

The only "real" issue with the -06, which is hardly addressed, is SAAMI spec pressures. Ackley changed the shoulder angle as to prevent his higher pressure loading to be put in (weaker) actions (1903's and the like). Run an -06 at .270 pressures in a modern gun and you'll come **** close to the .300 WM.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Past tense, it did do that. It did equal original 30-06 ballistics with the powders of the 1950s. Loaded to equal pressures, it cannot any longer.

There's no substitute for cubic inches...

It's still within 100-150 FPS... When it comes to pointing that out these slight speed differences with other certain NEW cartridges only being that close or being slightly slower than something before it, everyone else seems to keep saying, "But but but, it's ONLY 150 FPS difference..." But when it doesn't fit the narrative of the general consensus, it's not relevant. Sounds like the Democrats thinking minorities need all this help because they think they're inferior to others, but then turning around and calling republicans racist because they want to treat everyone equal...

 

[MudRunner2005]

The only "real" issue with the -06, which is hardly addressed, is SAAMI spec pressures. Ackley changed the shoulder angle as to prevent his higher pressure loading to be put in (weaker) actions (1903's and the like). Run an -06 at .270 pressures in a modern gun and you'll come ---- close to the .300 WM.

No, it won't...Not without almost blowing up your rifle, or separating a case. My 26" .30-06 AI won't even get THAT close, and I'm running it on the ragged-edge of safety using slow magnum powders to avoid issues with max case fill. I'm actually running a compressed load.

 

[Wolf76]

The only "real" issue with the -06, which is hardly addressed, is SAAMI spec pressures. Ackley changed the shoulder angle as to prevent his higher pressure loading to be put in (weaker) actions (1903's and the like). Run an -06 at .270 pressures in a modern gun and you'll come ---- close to the .300 WM.

You will never run with the 300 wm loaded at the same specs (hot). The 06 will always be 3-5 hundred fps slower, depending on the bullet. You're statement contradicts physics and practical experience. That said, at most hunting ranges, it's an academic conversation.

 

[therifleman556]

It's still within 100-150 FPS...

Going off of published data (Hodgdon & Nosler), the difference is more like 150-180 fps difference.

Significant? Not really, at least not for most people's uses. But it is a difference. If you look at published (Nosler) data for 7mm STW, it beats the standard Rem Mag by a smaller margin.

I'll agree with the earlier post about skipping it if a long action is required, though. Truthfully, I'd probably skip both and go 300 WSM but that's another matter.

 

[just country]

morning the 06 case is the mother of many neck sizing miracles.
I read many years ago a reloading book on the art of reloading.
the book stated that prior to WWI-WWII the materials for reloading
were not available. calibers on the norm were based on the
many hunting regions of the US. after WWII the 06 case was
the mother of reloaders. the 7x55-6.5x55-8mm-250-3000-243
30-40 Krag were popular. the 06 casing was necked up and down, shortened
in the making of wildcat calibers. 30-06, 7mm, 270, 25-06, 6mm-06, 243,
260 to give a few of art of achivements sp of reloading science.
a 30-06 and 308, 7x55, and 6.5x55 r cartridges of war. all these cartridges r used for
match shooting because the cartridges r inherit accurate.
Mr. Weatherby, Winchester, Ruger, Tubbs, O'Connor gave us our
play grounds. lets have fun. the ignorance of junior members
is for us to educate. we all learn more more more justme gbot tum

 

[J E Custom]

The bottom line is that it is a great cartridge and has it's place. there will always be cartridges that will out perform it, but in the hands of someone that knows it's strengths and weaknesses, it can be great and do everything that I was intended to.

In my mind, there are very few bad cartridges, just some that are less desirable for many reasons other than just how fast they will push a bullet. SAMMI pressures are set to protect the shooter and consider the weapons strength and use. one of the best known cartridges still in use with these restrictions is the 45/70. there are at least 3 different pressure levels for it and you would be foolish to use the top pressure loading's for a bolt gun in an old Trap door.

Besides the weapon's strength, there is always the case designed strength. It is smart business to load under maximum SAMMI pressures and very foolish to exceed them.

If you want more velocity, get a bigger faster cartridge designed for more pressure. Don't ask any cartridge to go beyond it's design and you will have less problems and be happy with it's performance.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Joe Tee]

Just creating a new thread so as not to sidetrack the original threads where these posts occur.

In response to posts on other threads, where .308 / .30-06 are mentioned in the same context as being replaced by Creedmoor for hunting, and forum members are falling over each other to smugly high-five their Creedmoor marketing knowledge.

Creedmoor is not a hunting cartridge. High BC bullets for Creedmoor are not for hunting.

When you load hunting bullets in a Creedmoor, you lose one of the two pillars underlying it's performance, that of the BC superiority. With the superior BC, the bullets can fly longer to compensate for the shorter powder column. Take that away and you have a small caliber brush buster.

You can certainly use a Creedmoor to hunt, same as you could use any caliber ever invented for hunting. But we do not punt every caliber invented as hunting replacements for the .308 / 30-06.

The 30-06 and .308 were made for terminal performance, not for target shooting.

Comparing the three is invalid, and illustrates shooter ignorance, not cartridge superiority.

Here we go again.

21% more powder doesn't automatically equal 21% greater performance...Anyone who's ever played around with cartridges or wildcats can tell you that. Cartridge design, burn rates, should angle, wall taper, burn column, all of these factor into performance. The .30-06 still does a great job at what it does, but it's just old school, and the design is old school. The whole entire reason we have the .308 Win (7.62x51 NATO) is because the military wanted a .30 caliber cartridge that would produce .30-06 Sprg. performance in a smaller, lighter, more compact package...And the .308 Win did just that. That's why it exists. "New" designed cartridges (like the Ackleys) are just a much better case design. Scientific facts. Does the old still work? Absolutely. But it's not up to par with the "new" designs when it comes down to burn characteristics and performance. If the old school case designs were so extraordinary, why does nobody still use them when they design their new cartridges...?

As for the 6.5CM, I'm pretty sure we all know where I stand on that one, and that I would not put it above the .308 or .30-06...Ever.

Also, I could see this thread getting really fun, really quickly. Can't wait for the festivities!!!

 

[Joe Tee]

Mudrunner29 de skipper29b: the reason is "MARKETING", plain and simple. As soon as something new hits the racks at stores everyone runs out to buy one? It's $$$$$$ they all know how to earn it!!!!

 

[Timber338]

... Besides the weapon's strength, there is always the case designed strength. It is smart business to load under maximum SAMMI pressures and very foolish to exceed them.

If you want more velocity, get a bigger faster cartridge designed for more pressure. Don't ask any cartridge to go beyond it's design and you will have less problems and be happy with it's performance.

J E CUSTOM

This is excellent advice... I could not agree more!

 

[FEENIX]

Mudrunner29 de skipper29b: the reason is "MARKETING", plain and simple. As soon as something new hits the racks at stores everyone runs out to buy one? It's $$$$$$ they all know how to earn it!!!!

Here we go again ...