Not so happy with the Accubonds

[edge]

The answer to your question is this: distance was 45 yards. The buck was quartering to me. The bullet entered the right lung region as that was the onside lung. The flight path and subsequent region where the bullet should have exited would have been the exact opposite of a quartering away shot with a bow.

Shot placement was perfect.

I've killed at least a couple dozen whitetails with the same presentation at closer and further distances with a 270 using btips, partitions, tsx, and aframes with a recovered deer.

Something was amiss with the AB.

There are no absolutes in hunting and your implication simply means that since a deer was not found it is my fault. You are wrong. This was a chip shot I've done several times over the past 2 decades.

NO, YOU ARE WRONG!

How is that for a conversation!
Don't be stupid, I said that since you did not find the animal you can't know whether the bullet failed or you failed!

Quite honestly, if you hit it at 45 yards as you say, then I bet that it was you...but I don't know for sure either!

Personally I bet that you only took out one lung FROM YOUR DESCRIPTION!
A quartering deer generally requires a more forward impact area then a broadside shot, and depending on the steepness of that shot, should be aimed at the onside leg and not the LUNG REGION as you described!

You said that the buck was quartering to you, which implies that it was moving which probably moved the bullet further back than you anticipated! Since you did not recover the animal it is ridiculous to blame the bullet!

Do bullets fail? Of course they do! Did yours, nobody knows

edge.

PS as a side note, I unloaded an Accubond at about 45 yards also. 30 Caliber 150 grains at over 3000 fps.

I shot at a tree and the Accubond went through it, but as luck would have it it centered a second tree about 5 yards further on and I had my portable sawzall with me. The first tree was 47 yards and about 6 inches across. Impact velocity was probably about 2950 to 3000 fps.
I did nick the bullet cutting it out of the tree, but it weighed 107 grains or 71% of its weight, a bit over 1/2 inch across, and a near perfect bonded mushroom!

edge.

 

[britz]

We all know that many times a large exit wound is how many people measure the power of a rifle and how some grade a bullet.
The truth is that often times it has more to do with what bullet is used, and how much bone was destroyed. If you hit a bone you will not only deform the bullet to cause a larger wound, but you are also creating lots of Shrapnal that is going to produce a huge wound.

I had a similar experience w/ my 300 wsm and a 180 AB @195 yards w/ 2 rounds through the chest (one was a poor shot, the other dropped it in it's tracks and both had Accorn to walnut sized exit wounds and neither hit much bone. The day earlier my brother shot a similar sized deer w/ his 30-06 and 180 core lock at @220 yards shot in the back with a horendous wound taking out the spine and half lots of tissue and bled to death in a matter of seconds. My wsm hit with considerable more velocity but hit far less bone. I am sticking with my AB's. Quite frankly, White tail are pretty easy to kill with good shot placement. Just because a large exit wound isn't there, doesn't mean the damage wasn't done too. Cavitation!!! Sure a huge hole leaking blood makes for easy tracking (especially if they drop in their tracks). As someone stated earlier, a double shouder shot (or at least one will probably put it down where it stands (or runs)

All, of course, is my humble opinion based on personal experience.

 

[Derek M.]

NO, YOU ARE WRONG!

How is that for a conversation!

Ruffled your feathers, did I?

Don't be stupid, I said that since you did not find the animal you can't know whether the bullet failed or you failed!

Don't be stupid. That's not what you wrote. This is:

I know that we all think that we never screw up, but if you don't have the animal, then the shot placement has to be questioned!

edge.

And yes I absolutely can say whether or not I failed. I was there. You were not. With all due respect, edge, this is what humors me so much on forums....when someone who wasn't even there seems to have all the answers. When in fact, they are simply saying so much that isn't so.

If I pulled the shot and hit the deer between the eyes and dropped him, did I fail? Yea, but guess what, I found the buck. Your point has a foundation built on sand. It simply doesn't hold water.

Quite honestly, if you hit it at 45 yards as you say, then I bet that it was you...but I don't know for sure either!

That is funny. You are willing to bet, but you aren't sure. Perhaps b/c you weren't present?

It's always so fascinating how some easily "bet" and point fingers b/c the intended game didn't die. It could never have been this particular bullet could it?

Personally I bet that you only took out one lung FROM YOUR DESCRIPTION! A quartering deer generally requires a more forward impact area then a broadside shot, and depending on the steepness of that shot, should be aimed at the onside leg and not the LUNG REGION as you described!

WRONG! Reread my post. The presentation of the buck was exactly the opposite of a quartering away shot. I have plenty of experience with this shot, and obviously YOU DON'T!

(YA LIKE THOSE CAPITAL LETTERS)?

You said that the buck was quartering to you, which implies that it was moving....

Where on earth do you come up with these premises? You don't seem to be very bright. What a dumb blanket statement. If you see a deer and it is quartering to you, that means it is moving? Are we to believe that it is impossible for an animal to be quartering to someone and not be moving? It cannot be frozen, staring at me, or at ease, and feeding??? If I had written that he was perfectly broadside, what does that imply? Please tell me, I can't stand the suspense! Was he walking? Sniffing a doe's butt? feeding???? I've never read the "implication rule book" on deer positions and what must be happening!

If I see a deer quartering away, does that also imply that he is moving? Reflect back to proofs in unified geometry. According to you, then the opposite must also be so.

Hold on, I'm struggling to type while laughing.

....which probably moved the bullet further back than you anticipated! Since you did not recover the animal it is ridiculous to blame the bullet!

You certainly have a right to your ridiculous opinion! By your own admission, you write, "do bullets fail? Of course they do! Yet, you are so absolutely sure that mine didn't and I'm all to blame! WOW, what a truly remarkable conclusion by someone who wasn't even there, just b/c the game wandered off!!!

YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN!

I cannot explain what happened, but I'll write the abstract for you again in more detail. I usually don't enter into any form of ****ing matches, but when someone seems to say so much that just isn't so, well, I just can't help myself:

I spot 13 mule deer does about 50 yards below me walking and feeding, quartering away. I'm sitting on a rock with my rifle on a solid rest. I wait another 20 or so minutes and a 4x4 follows their path.

He stopped several times at about 40-50 yards feeding. At one point, he quartered to me, was standing still. I clicked off the safety as he was clear in my scope. He was roughly 45 degrees quartering to me, a perfect shot for both lungs. He heard the safety and looked at me. Too late. My rock solid shot placed the bullet into his right lung/chest and was aimed in such a manner that it would have SHOULD HAVE exited the offside lung in the posterior third, still anterior to the diaphragm.

Everything about the shot was easy. It was a chip shot. Nothing extraordinary. The bullet knocked the buck on his ***. My brother and I began to walk down to him. When we were about 8 yards away, he jumped up and ran with blood leaking out of his chest at the exact point where I aimed.

He ran like he wasn't even injured and it startled us. He was in some thick brush in about 4 seconds.

We dropped down another 10 yards and eased out on a rock to see if we could visualize whether or not he would round the slope on the current bench, go up, or go down into the valley. He rounded the bench.

We followed sparse drops of blood for a long way, periodically spotting the deer on the move in a deliberate, steady walk or stot, all the way to the point he left the BLM, crossed a blacktop, and ran into private land.

NOW, I'll say it again. I was there. My brother was there. YOU were not. You certainly have a right to "bet" without certainty it was me and can skew my previous posts however you wish. But I've killed several hundreds of game animals with archery, ML, and firearms for over 2 decades in many states in the US and several provinces in Canada.

It is not reasonable to beat someone up when your entire opinion is nothing more than a guess.

So, if I ruffled your feathers with the "you are wrong" statement, then I humbly regret that it upset you. But, in my case, you are, and it is that simple. I have no clue why the events that occurred happened the way they did. I've never ever had that happen with partitions, aframes, and Barnes TSX/TTSX bullets.

By the way, my antelope was taken in the exact same manner this past Saturday in Texas but at 200 yards, with a 110 TTSX. The bullet entered the antelope in almost the exact same place that the AB entered the mulie.

However, when the goat hit the ground, he stayed put. AND the TTSX exited, as the AB should have done, but failed to do so.

 

[Pdvdh]

You're wasting your time arguing with edge. He actually thinks McCain stands a chance to win.

 

[Derek M.]

You're wasting your time arguing with edge. He actually thinks McCain stands a chance to win.

Ahhhh, I'm not arguing.

I'm just reiterating that he's wrong.

 

[Pdvdh]

Ahhhh, I'm not arguing.

I'm just reiterating that he's wrong.

Well, you don't have to convince me.

 

[edge]

Derek M., you clearly have no use for the English language and don't understand words meanings very well.

Try re-reading my post with that stick removed from your butt and have an adult explain the words that you don't understand.

For instance, the word implies means to suggest to us adults that understand the English language.

Talk about losing it! Man your meds seem to have worn off early.

OK, since you were there, and you never make mistakes, what happened to this particular bonded bullet? This should be easy with x ray vision

edge.

PS nice of your Muslim buddy Fauxworth came to your rescue.

 

[Pdvdh]

Re: Not so happy edge

You and nonya ought to team up. You'd be like peas in a pod.

 

[J300UM]

Derek,
I witnessed a similar situation 2 weeks ago. My buddy shot a nice muley at just shy of 300 yds with a 165gr scirroco. The buck dropped like a ton of bricks. About 10 seconds later he got up and trotted up and over the ridge. He didnt appear to be hurt at all. He even stopped at the top of the hill (out of range) and looked back at us before vanishing into the timber. We started our search where he was standing at the shot. We found his tracks but no blood. We followed his tracks for about a half mile before we lost them. We even had 2 other hunters that saw the shot come over and help us look. We continued looking until dark and found nothing. My buddy still feels low as snake belly over it and I cant blame him. Sometimes things happen that you can't explain. That said, I believe you. I wouldn't give up on the AB. They have more than proven themselves in all 8 rifles that I load for. Anything that is made by man for man is bound to fail at some point. Good hunting! I hope you get a chance to redeem!!!

 

[älg]

Every bullet has an intended use and none will perform at 100 % in all cases.

IN my experience, the Accubond is the best allround bullet out there: high BC, no point deformation, good expansion, good weight retention, no disintegration on close shots.

It is clear all bullets can fail; my experience is that the accubond does not expand as much as an A max or even a Scirocco will. However, penetration is normally going to be better.

For a long shot on a medium sized animal I would use the Amax. But when hunting, shots can be taken at any range and I think the accubond is a good compromise for all situations.

 

[edge]

Fauxworth you really are a useless sack of cr@p. Other than sticking your nose where it doesn't belong is there a reason you decided to start on me here?

I guess that you witnesses the shot too! You also saw how the bullet that has a solid base disappeared into nothing as if by magic! I did not say that the hunter failed, I said that that is a possibility based on not recovering the animal. The shooter thinks himself to be god in that he could not have made an error!!

Why don't you reread what others have said with some objectivity

But objectivity is not what you are about...is it! Just constantly stirring the pot...you are just a regular Phiserman

edge.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Last weekend I killed an Antelope buck at just a bit under 500 yards with my 7mm Ultra. I'm driving the Accubonds with 92grs of Retumbo at just about 3200 fps. I can consistently land three shots touching each other at 100 yards. The first shot was back a bit far, but did hit a rib going out. After being hit, the buck just stood there. The next shot was a classic Keith raking shot, in behind the ribs and all the way though the front shoulder. No bone was touched with that shot but the Accubond took a bunch of paunch material with it through the shoulder, and the exit wound was just a little hole not much bigger than 7mm. Again the buck just stood there, and after a moment just fell over. He is dead in any case, and will adorn my wall, but did I miss something? I thought the Accubonds were supposed to be pretty thin skinned? The performance of this bullet seems to be quite a bit less dramatic than what I observed two weeks ago whem my dad absolutely flattened an Antelope doe with a far back shot with a 220gr MK out of his 300 RUM. The same thing happened to me last year, at about 367 yards the Accubond sailed right through an Antelope buck, taking ribs both in and out, but certainly didn't seem to shock the animal the way I've seen some other bullets do.

Thoughts?

Hicks

At 3200 fps, I'd shoot an A-max, the accubond is a bonded bullet, designed to work like a controlled expansion bullet, if you don't hit much resistance, they don't expand much, especialy in light thinned skinned game. I shoot accubonds at 3575 fps, and always holf for a mid shoulder shot. At 500 yrds you had am impact velocity of just over 2400 fps, not enough resistance was met to expand well without hitting heavy bone.
This doe was taken at 532 yards with a 160 accubond, quartering way exit was through the offside shouler, exit was about the size of a nickel

RR

 

[Derek M.]

Well, edge, I don't have any muslim friends that I'm aware of.

Let's rewrite your post and use the word "suggest" and see if it changes the meaning/premise, MR. CLUELESS.

If I had a buck quartering to me, that "suggests" he was moving....according to you.


There, did that change the meaning/premise?

No. Now you really look like a fool and have shown, clearly, who hasn't got a grasp on English or adult language. All you did was offer a synonym for YOUR OWN WORDS, "implies, and suggests." And somehow we are to believe that this would somehow change your post?

You are doing an outstanding job of digging your pea sized brain into a large hole. BTW, I did make straight "A" grades in English and have a doctorate degree, and a masters. I never ever wrote that I don't make mistakes. I do and have... and I think I may have included that fact in a post. Ah yes, here it is:

I have no problem accepting faults when hunting. It's happened to me many times and I've kicked myself, especially when bowhunting, which is what I do most.

Once again, you are unable to regurgitate something accurately, without adding your own implications and twists.

When I used to teach, I gave up on students like you b/c they never "got it." I referred them to special ed, as they needed more one on one time until they did "get it."

That may come across as arrogant to you, but it is confidence. There's a difference, and anyone who is just as confident would never be offended by my post. However, I'm willing to "bet" that you are, and if so, that would "suggest" that you may realize you look like a complete fool.

The fact is, you can't grasp that one accubond did not perform as advertised and thus, it absolutely must be the fault of the shooter. So, that makes you one who believes in absolutes, and that is quite telling.

We can go back and forth everyday. Let's just agree to disagree since you are obviously not as smart as I am and I say that sincerely. Your posts "imply" you have a lesser IQ, oh, I'm sorry, they "suggest" that you aren't very bright. What is so pathetic is you can't even see it.

You read something, or read INTO something that isn't even there. At no time did I come even close to "suggesting" anything other than what was written, yet, you have the capability to snatch it out of the air....you're like a girl, your read what you want to read and probably hear what you want to hear, and somehow put a neat spin on it. Have you had your estrogen levels tested?

I have no stick up my butt, but you obviously cannot take being told when you are wrong. That's ok. I'm sure within the next 24 hours, if it even takes you that long, you'll post a great rant b/c you cannot let it go, and we can dive deeper and deeper into name calling and insults until the thread is ultimately locked.

 

[Derek M.]

Derek,
I witnessed a similar situation 2 weeks ago. My buddy shot a nice muley at just shy of 300 yds with a 165gr scirroco. The buck dropped like a ton of bricks. About 10 seconds later he got up and trotted up and over the ridge. He didnt appear to be hurt at all. He even stopped at the top of the hill (out of range) and looked back at us before vanishing into the timber. We started our search where he was standing at the shot. We found his tracks but no blood. We followed his tracks for about a half mile before we lost them. We even had 2 other hunters that saw the shot come over and help us look. We continued looking until dark and found nothing. My buddy still feels low as snake belly over it and I cant blame him. Sometimes things happen that you can't explain. That said, I believe you. I wouldn't give up on the AB. They have more than proven themselves in all 8 rifles that I load for. Anything that is made by man for man is bound to fail at some point. Good hunting! I hope you get a chance to redeem!!!

Thank you J300UM for your kind and respectful post. I don't want anyone (else) to over-interpret my post on the AB. I have a few thousand on the load bench. It is my go-to bullet for several rifles. I use the 200 and 180 in my 300 RUM, still use the 140 in the 270, and I have some 160s in 7mm.

This thread made me think back about 20 years ago to a buck I shot in Alabama with my bow at 11 yards. He was broadside, licking a branch over a scrape (please read: he was NOT moving....I don't want anyone else to think I'm "suggesting" he was moving ya know).

The arrow went entered and exited anterior to the diaphragm, by about 2". It was not a great shot, but the consensus seems to be that a "bullet or blade" in the vitals equals a dead animal. I agree. The buck did die, but he traveled through a creekbed about 500 yards away and over the next mountain. Blood was lacking and I recruited another hunter to assist. We found him 5 hours later and he wasn't stiff yet.

We examined the shot placement both inside and out. I cut the diaphragm on the offside part of his body, but still cut both lungs.

So, what does this mean? Here's a buck with 2 holes in his lungs, a cut diaphragm, but he still walks about a mile or close to it. Makes you scratch your head as it just didn't make sense.