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Nice video on measured energy transfer

I've got multiple antelope with 4500+ ft lbs of energy and they run of like nothing happened. I've seen elk same numbers, blown blood vessels everywhere away from the wound channel which shows some energy or pressure trama yet they can hold their feet running a couple hundred yards. Then I've hit them with WAY less and they stand there wobbling and fell over, energy didn't predict the results, would be nice if they did.
 
Look for any exceptions and you'll find them. It doesn't mean it's the rule.
 
I hit a meat sow at 50 yards with a Speer Magtip 180 gr from a 30-06. Broadside hit and it took out the lungs and heart. The guide said there was a huge blood cloud from the hit which we confirmed. The sow took off running for over 100 yards uphill like nothing hit it. We got her and the guide couldn't believe it ran off like it did he even stopped me from making a follow up shot. The bullet performed beyond my expectations with a huge amount of trauma. Dead on it's feet, it just didn't know it.
 
Mikecr said:
Hadn't thought about extras dragging my kills away..
Dag Nabbit!

Not a terminal ballistic expert, but I just wonder if it would be better to have a light bullet, traveling fast enough, and stopping 8-12" WITHIN game. No energy carried off the backside.

I'm seeing aluminum bullets showing up for self defense handgun ammo, with pretty big claims over jacketed lead.
A box of 38spl in this is declared to stop in 12" at 10ft (I'm assuming gel block) while traveling fully 500fps faster. That's gotta hurt, and I'm thinking it would hydraulically hammer their brain.
Then I just watch for cannibals
Click to expand...
Absolutely the lie we've been sold is
Magnum- perfectly mushroomed bullets-pass throughs. It sold an awful lot of magazines, ammo and components but none of those things aid in the killing of an animal.
Tissue damage kills, rapidly expanding bullets damage more tissue and do so at lower impact velocities. Bullets should dump as much energy inside an animal and destroy as much tissue as possible.
 
Back to the original program it would be nice to hear from the hunter on FEENIX's other Norma post that has used ECO bullets. Sounds like he and his friends has a large sample of successful hunts with them.
 
xsn10s said:
What's so many? I'd say the the numbers would favor the gelatin tests.
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So many it's literally doesn't translate to reality, you can't take a gel block and shoot it and make a 100% correlation to what happens on game, just doesn't happen! Don't get me wrong I love looking at them but it's just not data that you can carry to the field with confidence, it can be good comparative data maybe. At the very least they could cast in a beef shoulder or ribs fresh from the kill floor, throw a hide in it too.
We are always trying to boil it down to a number or something that will give you some quantifiable assurance of performance, it's human nature which is especially easy for a marketing team to work on, that's my push back.
 
bigngreen said:
So many it's literally doesn't translate to reality, you can't take a gel block and shoot it and make a 100% correlation to what happens on game, just doesn't happen! Don't get me wrong I love looking at them but it's just not data that you can carry to the field with confidence, it can be good comparative data maybe. At the very least they could cast in a beef shoulder or ribs fresh from the kill floor, throw a hide in it too.
We are always trying to boil it down to a number or something that will give you some quantifiable assurance of performance, it's human nature which is especially easy for a marketing team to work on, that's my push back.
Click to expand...
No one said 100 % correlation. But if it wasn't quantifiable then forensic scientists, ballisticians, bullet manufacturers wouldn't use it. As far as putting bones and hide in the gel Barbour Creek did that. They stopped because it just created a mess and didn't change the results in their opinion. Marketing teams use all sorts of tools to sell bullets. Hunter's endorsements is one tool. Gel tests can be another. It's funny I see people using Dr Fackler as part of their arguements for their ideas on terminal ballistics. And then make arguements against gel tests. Well Dr Fackler came up with gel tests to help determine bullet terminal performance. Is it the end all be all? Nope. No one that said it was. It's just a tool. Far better test media than wet newspapers.
 
xsn10s said:
No one said 100 % correlation. But if it wasn't quantifiable then forensic scientists, ballisticians, bullet manufacturers wouldn't use it. As far as putting bones and hide in the gel Barbour Creek did that. They stopped because it just created a mess and didn't change the results in their opinion. Marketing teams use all sorts of tools to sell bullets. Hunter's endorsements is one tool. Gel tests can be another. It's funny I see people using Dr Fackler as part of their arguements for their ideas on terminal ballistics. And then make arguements against gel tests. Well Dr Fackler came up with gel tests to help determine bullet terminal performance. Is it the end all be all? Nope. No one that said it was. It's just a tool. Far better test media than wet newspapers.
Click to expand...
Yep! The video in #10 addresses how people interpret the gel test literally.
 
FEENIX said:
Yep! The video in #10 addresses how people interpret the gel test literally.
Click to expand...
That's neat and all but I'm not shooting hand guns and I'm not shooting people.
I like test as much or more than the next guy cause they are handy, like they said, to find some correlation between what you see in x test media vs the hit on game, that is actually interesting and of some value to the individual what not helpful is how many people or marketing teams use these test as say shock and awe to market bullets and the amount of people who take it as a direct model of what the bullet will do.
 
bigngreen said:
That's neat and all but I'm not shooting hand guns and I'm not shooting people.
I like test as much or more than the next guy cause they are handy, like they said, to find some correlation between what you see in x test media vs the hit on game, that is actually interesting and of some value to the individual what not helpful is how many people or marketing teams use these test as say shock and awe to market bullets and the amount of people who take it as a direct model of what the bullet will do.
Click to expand...
The context was not just pistol round or shooting people. The test was established to meet FBI requirements; it is now a standard ballistic gel test for bullet/ammo manufacturers and independent testers.
 

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