Velocity & Energy

[GetReel]

That being said, I go pretty much solely on energy that the bullet carries. With today's components and technology,(shooter out of the equation), if you can handle shooting a 300 grain bullet you can make some serious long shots all it would take is turning turrets and a steady hand (Enviroment not considered). I can shoot my 30 nosler with 245's out to 1500 yards and have the 1500 pounds of energy for a bull elk. I wouldn't hesitate either. The bullet's velocity doesn't go transonic until 2000 yards. That doesn't mean I would even consider past 1500 yards. Is it still effective on say a 150 deer, you bet, but I won't take the shot.

With all that said I would bet 98% of the hunters or shooters could not take a 1500 yard shot and maybe 85% couldn't make a 500 yard shot. I have a good friend that can make a 1000 yard shot on steel all day long.....give him a game animal to shoot at 500 yards and he can't hit it or if he does it's marginal. So lots and lots and lots of things to consider and variables that your post has taken out.

With all that said, you look for 1500lbs/energy or more for elk correct?

I didn't want to make this thread about all the ethics, marksmanship or "variables" that can cause these derailments.
That's why I asked in the original post "what do you want your velocity and energy to be? Let's talk velocity and energy on deer/elk."

 

[Longtine88]

yeah, that's all true and everyone's field conditions and hunting rests are different. But I like having enough velocity on impact to have hydraulic shock. I would really like to know what is the minimum required velocity for good hydraulic shock with a good expanding bullet that doesn't lose too much mass to have full penetration.

As for being able to put a good hit on the critter under field conditions at longer distances, well, that is first of all basic marksmanship (which cannot be bought) and a subject of a different thread.

Effective Game Killing

Effective game killing- How bullets kill and where to aim to ensure a fast clean kill.

www.ballisticstudies.com

 

[YZ-80]

Every bullet has it's own required velocity for expansion. So the answer to your question will vary with the bullet used. But expansion isn't your only concern. You will want enough velocity to achieve hydraulic tissue damage to put elk down quickly. For that, you need more speed than what is required for expansion.

Yes, I think "hydraulic tissue damage" refers to temporary cavitation damage and the wound channel you are left with equates to the permanent cavitation damage. In the former case, I think the"hunching up" of the animal at impact represents the temporary cavitation at its peak. Very interesting.

 

[Longtine88]

With all that said, you look for 1500lbs/energy or more for elk correct?

I didn't want to make this thread about all the ethics, marksmanship or "variables" that can cause these derailments.
That's why I asked in the original post "what do you want your velocity and energy to be? Let's talk velocity and energy on deer/elk."

It's not that simple to talk velocity and energy on a specific animal.

 

[Jon Bischof]

Effective Game Killing

Effective game killing- How bullets kill and where to aim to ensure a fast clean kill.

www.ballisticstudies.com

The referenced link says speeds above 2600 fps yield consistent hydrostatic shock. My own hunting experience would lead me to want the impact velocity to be higher than that.

 

[Longtine88]

The referenced link says speeds above 2600 fps yield consistent hydrostatic shock. My own hunting experience would lead me to want the impact velocity to be higher than that.

Well if you bring pistol rounds into the equation your velocities are much much lower than that speed and they deliver a lot of hydro shock also. This proves the point of bullet design and construction is a large factor. Consider shooting a 168 FMJ. Pin holes through even flying 3000 fps????

 

[Jon Bischof]

Well if you bring pistol rounds into the equation your velocities are much much lower than that speed and they deliver a lot of hydro shock also. This proves the point of bullet design and construction is a large factor. Consider shooting a 168 FMJ. Pin holes through even flying 3000 fps????

yes, of course. But fmj has no application for our larger game hunting.

Regarding pistol rounds, my son killed four deer with 357 Magnum Handi-Rifle (carbine length) using Federal Fusion Hollow Points. They all died within 30-40 yards and the Fusions expanded as designed. While it may have some Hydro-shock effect even in 357, it is not really what I'm wanting for Shock.

I want the Hydro Shock that you get when you impact a bullet above 2800 fps. So I like 270 WSM for that reason, it starts out above 3,000 fps, 3200 if you nudge it.
The effect that it has had on big bucks has been amazing. They are so dead, their spirits swoosh out of their bodies before they hit the ground like a sack of cement mix. 30-06 kills them too, but just not as much insta-shock like you get when your bullet is above 3,000 fps.

But you are oh, so right about bullet design and terminal performance. We are living in the Golden Age of Terminal Performance.