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Deleted member 115360
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When you stand thousands of people in parade formation, you can do amazing things with a 10 moa rifle.
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New Rifle Recommendations -- Help me!!
- Thread starter Brydawg512
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
brcfo_outdoors
Well-Known Member
If you want a high quality rifle that is going to last I always advocate for going custom. Unless a brand offers something really niche/unique production rifle, I am going to build a center fire bolt action hunting rifle on my own using a custom action and prefit barrel.
That being said, Eurooptic has the Sako S20 Hunter in 300WM for $1599, which is something I would personally consider if I were purchasing a production hunting rifle. They also have a Bergara HMR PRO for the same price and a demo model for a bit less. Throw a Vortex Razor LHT in SFP or something from the LOW factory (Element or Athlon) on there and you would have a solid set up right around your budget.
I would avoid a factory Remington 700 or similar clone (read Bergara B14) in a belted magnum. In my experience as soon as things heat up the action locks up like a bank vault. I have seen other people experience the same thing trying to slap their bolt handle up in order to get it to open. Not necessarily a problem while hunting, but sighting in and practicing can be frustrating.
That being said, Eurooptic has the Sako S20 Hunter in 300WM for $1599, which is something I would personally consider if I were purchasing a production hunting rifle. They also have a Bergara HMR PRO for the same price and a demo model for a bit less. Throw a Vortex Razor LHT in SFP or something from the LOW factory (Element or Athlon) on there and you would have a solid set up right around your budget.
I would avoid a factory Remington 700 or similar clone (read Bergara B14) in a belted magnum. In my experience as soon as things heat up the action locks up like a bank vault. I have seen other people experience the same thing trying to slap their bolt handle up in order to get it to open. Not necessarily a problem while hunting, but sighting in and practicing can be frustrating.
greenejc
Well-Known Member
Well, this is probably page 10 on this forum in advice on what to buy, but to give you any advice, I'd need to know what ranges you intend to shoot, what calibers you like, and how heavy you want your rifle and scope combo to be, and if you handload. I personally have two Remington 700 rifles in 300WM and two in 35 Whelen (one of which is a custom rifle with an E R Shaw 1 in 14 inch twist 26 inch barrel). Since I don't intend to try to kill elk past about 700 yards, I mostly hunt with the Whelen, using handloads and Speer 250 grain spitzers at velocities of around 2675 in the Remington CDL and 2750 or so in the custom rifle. The velocity difference is due to the 2 inch difference in barrel length between the two rifles. This load gives me about a 1 inch group at 100 yards, which is good enough. My alternate load is with a Sierra 225 grain boattail bullet, and gives about a 60 fps difference between rifles, at around 2730 to 2800fps depending on barrel length, and accuracy capable of hitting golf balls at 100 yards. Ammunition can be bought through Nosler, Hornaday and Buffalo Bore in weights ranging from 200 grains to 250 grain loads if you don't handload. As to scopes, check out the Shepherd DRS line at https://shepherdscopes.com/. I have their 3rd generation scopes on my rifles and they do exactly what they're advertized to do. You could also get the entire rifle in any caliber as a semi-custom through ER Shaw if you wanted to, in either 300WM, 338WM or 35 Whelen. They'le mount the scope for you, too. That's an option. I would personally find a used Ruger M77 action with the tang safety, and have them put on a Shaw barrel, though. A long action Ruger with a 24" barrel in any of these calibers would be hard to beat. The whole package with 30mm rings and scope would be under 2500 dollars if Shaw does the work and you buy a new Shepherd 3.5 to 15 scope.
johnnyk
Well-Known Member
I just saw this today and I am guessing it's been out for a couple of months. Not available in .300WinMag but is in 6.8Western, 6.5PRC, .270 & .300WSM. I have no experience with it but love the "Rifleman's Rifle" (Model 70) and the way this looks. Just a thought.
Since you are asking the LRH members, you need the clearly define ...
- What exactly is nicer and lasts me a while? Nicer from what? How long it will last depends on how much you shoot.
- What kind of quality and to which rifle(s) have you done a comparative analysis?
It is hard for anyone to help if your requirements are not clearly defined.
Moving on ...
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greenejc
Well-Known Member
I own at least 5 Remington 700's, and have shot up to 40-50 rounds in a session testing loads without any problem due to action heating. Friends of mine in the Army who have used the M24 action for years (long action blueprinted for accuracy) and have shot them in combat all over the mid-east in both .308win and 300WM have not had problems with them trying to lock up. I don't know about the Bagara action, however the Remington action only has problems if your handloads are really hot. Sticky bolt lift is generally because of excessive pressure. I have had experience with it in Ruger and Remington actions only when running loads at maximum powder charges, and usually only in military brass in the case of .308, 30-06 and fire-forming 35 Whelen from military 30-06 brass. Military brass in any caliber is thicker, generally, than civilian brass because it has to resist fire in automatic rifles and machine guns so it reaches maximum pressures with slightly lower powder charges and has to be watched closely at near max charges.
greenejc
Well-Known Member
Check out the records on Berdan's Sharpshooters and their use of the Sharps 52 cal. paper cartridge rifle at Gettysburg and several other battles. They picked and hit individual targets at 600, 700 and 800 yards, and were usually employed against field grade officers and Confederate snipers, who were armed with Whitworth sniping rifles. The Whitworth was capable of 1000 yard shots. Just so you'll know. Cartridge Sharps extended the range and accuracy of that rifle to an easy 1,000 yards and beyond. But the paper cartridge rifle would do 800 yards accurately, and did. I own a 54 cal. reproduction and have shot it to 600 yards just to see what it would do.
greenejc
Well-Known Member
Actually, the 300 H&H isn't a bad choice, if you can stand the recoil. It shoots suffeciently flat for distance (800 yards at least), has a good selection of bullet weights and factory loads, and is adequate for just about anything including African dangerous game. The drawbacks are recoil weight (add about a pound at least, and you'll want the weight) and the requirement for a magnum length action, which adds about $500 to the rifle. If you get one, get iron sights too, and a muzzle brake. You'll want it.
You might also consider the Remington SPS Long range in 300 Winmag. Gunwerks has made accurizing videos on the stock rifle and had 0.5 inch groups with it at 100 yards, and hit 12" plates with it at 1,000 yards without any trouble. The starting price for this rifle is about $800. The work for accuracy is minimal and easily performed, consisting mostly of bedding, and the rifle might not need it. Both my standard barrelled 300WM's shoot inside 0.8" at 100 yards with 5 shot groups from the box.
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D
Deleted member 115360
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The inconsistencies of the powder they used would have made them very, very inaccurate rifles. You might be able to do better today with factory supplied powder than they could have dreamed back then. Their bullets were also cast in huge casts where they would make hundreds or thousands in a pour, with very inconsistent lead supplies. If you just look at what they were using, it's pretty easy to see that while they surely made hits at longer ranges, the idea that they were regularly picking off individuals at those ranges just isn't realistic. The reality of employing consistent 1,000y capable snipers is in its first couple of decades right now.
Kmccord
Well-Known Member
If you are looking at Factory, look at a Bergara Ridgeback in whichever caliber you want, but if it was me and had to be a 30 Caliber, I would go with a 300 PRC in that rifle, if you drop down to .284, look at 7mm Rem Mag or if you reload, 28 Nosler.
greenejc
Well-Known Member
Try again. The consistency of black powder was at least as good in the mid 1800's as it is today. They had been making it for about 400 years by then. Hodgdens doesn't make it much better than the good manufacturers made it before the civil war. Also, the powders used for the Sharps snipers were specially manufactured. And they did shoot to 7 and 800 yards at individual targets. So did the Confederate snipers. For that matter, until Carlos Hathcock made his 2500 meter shot in Vietnam, the longest measured and recorded sniping shot was made by Billy Dixon at Adobe Walls, Texas, at 1538 yards as measured by the US Army Corps of Engineers. He shot Quana Parker's sub-chief. The Creedmoor matches in 1874 and on were shot at 1,000 yards with Sharps and Remington Creedmoor rifles and there weren't many misses made on the American teams. As to the lead, they used a pure lead bullet for the Sharps paper cartridge rifle, hollow based so it would expand to fit the rifling perfectly. Accuracy and consistency weren't that much of a problem. Figuring drop was. But the guys who did this had been shooting since they were maybe 10 or 11 years old, using muzzle loading rifles and loose powder. They were good. The fact is that they did shoot individual targets at that distance, and the histories of the Civil War record it, including in many cases the range and photographic evidence. The bullet got there and it did it accurately. It just got there a little slower. Tests were conducted by the army on range and accuracy when the 45-70 was adopted that are eye-opening where range and penetration are concerned. President Lincoln was given a demonstration of the Sharps before it was adopted for Col. Berdan's Sharpshooters where Col. Berdan shot a silhouette of a man at 600 yards multiple times to show its effectiveness. And the Army and Marine snipers have been getting 1,000 yard + kills with the 7.62 and 30-06 since Korea. There were even some in Vietnam, where there weren't many long range oportunities due to terrain. Carlos had several confirmed kills with the -06 at 1,000 and beyond.
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You rock on with the 300 WM, good all around choice with ammo, (outside of these covid times) readily available. I would recommend a factory built firearm rather than a custom one. It has been my humble experience that Tikka's, Browning and Winchester model 70's are pretty much as good as they get and easily shoot under 1 MOA with the proper ammo. As far as optics, it's hard to beat a Vortex. I have Diamondback 6 x 24 x 50's on most of my rifles. Good optics quality, excellent light transmission and it's nice to make a 4 click adjustment and actually see the bullets hit one inch different. Mine are mounted on 20 moa rails with Vortex Rings. Both my 270 and 30-06 shoot sub moa. I just bought a Browning AB3 in 300 WM, had a muzzle brake put on to tame the recoil and it's already shooting 1 MOA groups, with a little more fine tuning I'm expecting sub MOA groups with both 165 and 180 gr bullets. Still working on which one works best. I like accurate rifles and so far have not spent over $1400 on any of mine and they are all shooters as well as good hunting rifles. One other thing is that ammo is coming back and is already becoming available for all three of those rounds, unlike some of the custom ones that may take another year or so before one sees ammo on the shelf for them. The choice however is really up to you since it's your money to spend. Good Luck and let us know what you decide on.
D
Deleted member 115360
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Hathcock taped an 8x scope on top of a ma duece and got lucky. The second battle of Adobe walls was a lark. That dude shot into a group of more than a thousand people and hit one.
100 years later in the Vietnam War, thousand yard consistency was still out of reach. You can find anecdotes to make any point, but the reality is that the consistency required to make 1,000y hits on man sized targets with a shoulder fired rifle with repeatability on a battlefield was born in our lifetimes.
100 years later in the Vietnam War, thousand yard consistency was still out of reach. You can find anecdotes to make any point, but the reality is that the consistency required to make 1,000y hits on man sized targets with a shoulder fired rifle with repeatability on a battlefield was born in our lifetimes.
wkdwdg66
Well-Known Member
The best snipers of civil war era were picking individual targets at that distance. No, there weren't using standard muskets.
