New Mexico bans the use of scopes

[ENCORE]

all you people talking about using smokeless powder you can't use smokeless powder in new mexico for the muzzleloading season only blackpowder, pyrodex or equivalent blackpowder substitute may be used acording to the 2021-2022 hunting booklet page 28 my cva shoots 100 grns of blackhorn powder and a 260 grn bullet at 1832 fps at the muzzle and at 200 yards the energy is about 1358 foot pounds of energy

Smokeless could be used during the regular rifle season. Custom rifles shoot BH209 better than any production rifle.

Mind sharing the information on the 260gr bullet you're shooting? I highly doubt with that velocity that you're getting 1358fpe at 200yds. Need the bullets BC.

 

[knc1105]

If you get to hunt in the Rut it should be a Primitive weapon, bow or traditional muzzleloader. I have a 54 cal Allen Arms Sante Fe Hawken a fabulous ML but have not hunted with for years when those space age ones came out. Maybe I'll dust it off again.

 

[Tree Farmer]

Muzzleloading seasons are another opportunity to expand hunter participation. Let's embrace the opportunity. In my case, I choose to hunt the ML season with a patch and ball flintlock. I won an inline ML rifle in a raffle and immediately traded it. But, if a modern, scoped frontstuffer works for you and is legal, go for it! Whatever you use, however, has it's limitations. Just know what they are, including your abilities to shoot that weapon, and don't exceed them.

 

[ducky]

A couple of my buddies and my daughter use See All sights on their ML here in CO. No magnification and no batteries, and no issues with the GWs here when they check us. I went with a WGS peep and front globe on my ML.

 

[C-130 Dude]

This is what happens when the modern industry touts 500- 600 - 800 yard shots with scoped muzzle loaders.

NM State Game Commission Bans Scopes on Muzzleloaders - New Mexico Wildlife Federation - New Mexico Wildlife Federation

By BEN NEARY NMWF Conservation Director Starting next year, New Mexico hunters who take to the field in designated muzzleloader seasons will no longer be able to use scope sights on their guns, the state game commission voted Friday. The New Mexico State Game Commission also voted on Friday to...

nmwildlife.org

Does this new prohibition include such non magnified Optics such as a non magnified Eotech?

 

[Leadslinger300rum]

You can always find an exception to everything if you look hard enough. You show me a muzzleloader from 150 years ago, that Joe blow hunter can pick up and shoot that can that compete with a gunwerks muzzleloader from today and I'll buy you a beer. The whole point of archery, and ML seasons are that they are primitive weapons. That's why they are during the rut and usually the seasons are longer. I'm all for being open to technology, but at some point we all have to say enough is enough.

Show me a bow and arrow from 150 years ago that will compete with any modern compound bow with mechanical broadheads, carbon fiber arrows, fiber optic sights, synthetic strings, cams, composite limbs, laser range finders, mechanical releases etc etc etc not very primitive, when is enough enough?

 

[Ucsdryder]

Show me a bow and arrow from 150 years ago that will compete with any modern compound bow with mechanical broadheads, carbon fiber arrows, fiber optic sights, synthetic strings, cams, composite limbs, laser range finders, mechanical releases etc etc etc not very primitive, when is enough enough?

Yep. You won't hear any complaints from me about anything technology related. I'd love to go more primitive for ALL weapons. Someone will be here soon to tell you there were Mongolians slinging arrows 300 yards 8000 years ago!

 

[Coldfinger]

You're talking about the NM Game & Fish Commission. No common sense required to participate.

Ed

No common sense required in any game and fish commission!

 

[CMP70306]

all you people talking about using smokeless powder you can't use smokeless powder in new mexico for the muzzleloading season only blackpowder, pyrodex or equivalent blackpowder substitute may be used acording to the 2021-2022 hunting booklet page 28 my cva shoots 100 grns of blackhorn powder and a 260 grn bullet at 1832 fps at the muzzle and at 200 yards the energy is about 1358 foot pounds of energy

Smokeless was brought up because of others claiming that the reason for the change was people using custom muzzleloaders to shoot elk at 800 yards. Blackhorn loads fall 600 to 1000 fps short of smokeless and even with the best bullets would still be limited to around 400 yards to ensure good terminal performance.

 

[ENCORE]

Smokeless was brought up because of others claiming that the reason for the change was people using custom muzzleloaders to shoot elk at 800 yards. Blackhorn loads fall 600 to 1000 fps short of smokeless and even with the best bullets would still be limited to around 400 yards to ensure good terminal performance.

120grs VOLUME of BH290 and the 350gr XLD bullets.

 

[CMP70306]

120grs VOLUME of BH290 and the 350gr XLD bullets.

View attachment 409505

The 120gr of Blackhorn data on their website had the 275gr NSR bullets going around 2000 fps which is what I used for my calculations with the .32 BC for the lower muzzle velocity. That 2183 is almost 300 fps faster than the load data on their site for a 350gr bullet. With 100 gr volume and a 250gr sabot our inlines are shooting around 1800 fps so I didn't think those kind of speeds with that heavy of a bullet were possible with 120gr of Blackhorn.

 

[ENCORE]

The 120gr of Blackhorn data on their website had the 275gr NSR bullets going around 2000 fps which is what I used for my calculations with the .32 BC for the lower muzzle velocity. That 2183 is almost 300 fps faster than the load data on their site for a 350gr bullet. With 100 gr volume and a 250gr sabot our inlines are shooting around 1800 fps so I didn't think those kind of speeds with that heavy of a bullet were possible with 120gr of Blackhorn.

First.................... You need to understand BH209. No disrespect intended.

EVERY lot number of BH is different and what may 120grs VOLUME with one lot, when you start another lot, the VOLUME remains the same (always) however, there can be a HUGE difference by weight. HUGE!

Shooting bullet to bore and using BH, you can change the velocity by up to 100fps by changing the loading forces. A bullet that slides down the bore with 2 fingers WILL NOT have the same velocity as the same bullet, same identical charge, bullet that loads hard. I use a Magnetospeed V3, new and updated for velocity verification.

For instance.......... Lot#41. If you take a FULL volume measure of 120grs, that same 120grs VOLUME will now WEIGH 96.2grs average over 10.

Lot#39 averages 96.1grs by weight when using a FULL VOLUME measure of 120grs.

Here's some testing:

NOW...... the same only using it by VOLUME of a FULL 120grs, weighing out 10 volume charges and using the AVERAGE.

NOTICE; Lot#41 is sending the same bullet at over 2,300fps ???
Now, if you change the loading force, you can gain up to 100fps more velocity.

I shoot a little BH along with SML
I have 10 more 10oz bottles (case) not shown.

 

[CMP70306]

First.................... You need to understand BH209. No disrespect intended.

EVERY lot number of BH is different and what may 120grs VOLUME with one lot, when you start another lot, the VOLUME remains the same (always) however, there can be a HUGE difference by weight. HUGE!

Shooting bullet to bore and using BH, you can change the velocity by up to 100fps by changing the loading forces. A bullet that slides down the bore with 2 fingers WILL NOT have the same velocity as the same bullet, same identical charge, bullet that loads hard. I use a Magnetospeed V3, new and updated for velocity verification.

For instance.......... Lot#41. If you take a FULL volume measure of 120grs, that same 120grs VOLUME will now WEIGH 96.2grs average over 10.

Lot#39 averages 96.1grs by weight when using a FULL VOLUME measure of 120grs.

Here's some testing:

View attachment 409549

NOW...... the same only using it by VOLUME of a FULL 120grs, weighing out 10 volume charges and using the AVERAGE.


View attachment 409551

NOTICE; Lot#41 is sending the same bullet at over 2,300fps ???
Now, if you change the loading force, you can gain up to 100fps more velocity.

I shoot a little BH along with SML
I have 10 more 10oz bottles (case) not shown.

View attachment 409552

Interesting, I knew about the weight to volume difference but not how big the lot to lot variation was. My experience with it is predominantly through my dad and brother who load roughly 90gr volume in the little tube and it shoots around 1.5" with sabots which is good enough for the shots they take. I never personally used it long enough to dive into the weeds like you have as our season is short, shots aren't usually more than 100 yards and it's only for does so no real pressure to get one.

When I started muzzleloader hunting I primarily hunted with a flintlock then two years with Blackhorn in a CVA Accura LR before switching to smokeless and the NSR bullets. Since I was using the NSR bullets I never got into sizing bullets and the effect that it has but that is good information to know for the future if I decide to switch to a non NSR bullet.

Thank you for the very informative post.

 

[ENCORE]

Interesting, I knew about the weight to volume difference but not how big the lot to lot variation was. My experience with it is predominantly through my dad and brother who load roughly 90gr volume in the little tube and it shoots around 1.5" with sabots which is good enough for the shots they take. I never personally used it long enough to dive into the weeds like you have as our season is short, shots aren't usually more than 100 yards and it's only for does so no real pressure to get one.

When I started muzzleloader hunting I primarily hunted with a flintlock then two years with Blackhorn in a CVA Accura LR before switching to smokeless and the NSR bullets. Since I was using the NSR bullets I never got into sizing bullets and the effect that it has but that is good information to know for the future if I decide to switch to a non NSR bullet.

Thank you for the very informative post.

FYI........... with smokeless, loading force doesn't affect velocity like it does with BH. Richard over on Hanks did that part of the test and loading forces with SML just doesn't affect velocity.

#2 FYI......... There .... might .... be a 1,000yd SML match in MI next summer.