New Mexico bans the use of scopes

[AZShooter]

Friend and I are going to NM for our last scoped muzzleloader hunt for cow elk in December.

We ordered the Williams muzzleloader sight that has the new skeletonized front hood allowing more light to hit a hi viz style front bead. The rear aperture sight has four options for the insert. Supplied is .150" you can order .125" .093" .050"

Cannot find the exact link for the skeletonized front hooded sight, link shows the original fully hooded front sight with rear aperture for muzzleloaders:

Ecommerce

shop.williamsgunsight.com

 

[Montucky Roamer]

This is great! It's a muzzleloader season for a reason. Muzzleloader hunting should be HARD! If you can shoot far using a scopeless muzzleloader, good for you. If you can't , then get close or hunt some other way.
Hiking up a mountain is supposed to be hard also. But everyone apparently should get a participation trophy.
If you want to use smokeless,long-range super muzzleloaders with your nightforce scope, I know you can in Montana for at least 8 weeks of every single year. Probably true in many states. You may share the field with others with modern rifles but your probably all about live and let live right?

Who cares about what they want to use right? If they want to hunt with drones and run side by sides all over the mountain we should totally let them do so...we are one great big family!

 

[CBS]

I've been on this site for a long time and I don't remember a thread quite like this one. The number of people attacking others for hunting with a scope on a muzzleloader is very surprising. Stating that hunting with a muzzleloader should disqualify someone from using anything with a technological upgrade is pretty hypocritical from a long range hunting crowd. A 300 yard shot used to be considered an extreme shot with a rifle and now it's considered a chip shot. Why should hunting with a muzzleloader require less technology? Many have either stated or inferred that muzzleloader hunting is a "primitive" weapons only. Why should rifle hunters have access to technology and Noone else? I have friends that shoot bows that have come a long way due to technology now shooting groups at 90 yards that are the same size they shot at 30 yards years ago should those be banned? The hypocrisy of these critics in this thread is embarrassing to the long range hunter and shooter. I guess I'm getting tired of selfish hypocrites and many of you have come across that way.

 

[Reelamin]

I fully support it with the option for those with some known (Dr. Proven with clearly benchmark identified limitations) being allowed a very low power optic (IE 2x max).

 

[CBS]

You're a hypocrite

 

[huntwithme]

those odds on getting rifle tags are going to increase more tags available for us di-hard muzzle loaders never shot over 75 yards anyway

 

[Mike Matteson]

I have been doing some reading on muzzler loader. With what they are doing to day with smokeless powder and other items. I almost fell over. I fail to see much different than a cartridge cases. Montana you can only use lose powder, caps or flintlocks. No 209 primers. Can't remember if inline is out also. I feel it has gotten way out of hand as to what the black powder rifle did and does now.
With a compound bow I could reach out to 80yds, shot a 4" group or under. At 20 yards I had to stop using a single bulleyes to shot at. To many Rodin Hoods arrows. You would spend $12 to $15 each time it happen.
With us old farts a low powder scope would be nice.
The other is being ethical in your use of a firearm or bow.

 

[comfisherman]

Muzzle loader hunter: we need a special season like bows for our primitive equipment.

State game boards: OK here's a premium week after bow before rifle.

Muzzle loader hunter 20 years later: here is my carbon stocked wonder gun that shots smokeless from rifle primers, with low drag jacketed bullets and a scope with accurate drops to 700.... it's "primitive"

State game boards: bans scopes

Muzzle loader hunters: but my poor eyesight and lombago...

Victims of their own innovation, with just a smidgen of slight of hand.

 

[CBS]

My hunting rifles 30 years ago were dramatically different than my rifles today. Am i cheating with my rifle season hunting equipment? If you're not shooting the same rifle scope ammo combo in your rifle today as 30 years ago and want too complain about muzzleloaders....... you're a hypocrite.

The previous poster is very ignorant pointing at a carbon stock being a difference maker, and smokeless powder and rifle primers were never legal in New Mexico. So innovating to a better bc bullet is absurd in a muzzleloader but on in a rifle?

Hypocrasy.

 

[AZShooter]

I keep reading about smokeless. Just for the record smokeless is not allowed for muzzleloader hunting in NM or for that matter Az.

I just put the Williams Western Muzzleloader sights on my Rem 700 Ultimate MZ. Going to be testing it soon. I am one of the oldsters with long distance cataract lens will know soon if this is going to work. If I can hit a 10" steel gong at 250 yds I will continue to hunt NM with a MZ.

Link for the Williams sights:

Ecommerce

shop.williamsgunsight.com

Friend and I each got a set. While we both ordered the front fiberoptic insert, he also ordered the pack of reticle inserts. We viewed all inserts in midday sun at objects in sun and shade. Many of the inserts were so thin they disappeared in even the slightest shadow. The fiberoptic insert seems the best for both of us. FYI he is much younger with better eyesight.

 

[comfisherman]

My rifle is radically different than 30 years ago, granted 30 years ago I was a small child... guess fair play I've significantly updated my red rider since I was 6.

The whole rational behind bows and muzzle loaders getting early seasons, special tags and times is to give them an advantage to offset the significant inefficiencies of primitive weapons. Eliminate those efficiencies and you eliminate the need for the special season. Most of those seasons were fought for by well meaning people packing hawkin style rifles fighting to maintain a tradition way of hunting. States responded with the special seasons, but many years later we've come to the point where regulators go "hey that's not why we give you special stuff". Probably the easiest way to do that was eliminate magnified optics.

Then we get to the good old fashioned red herring of "but but.... hypocrite ".

Rifle season is like open class, your only limited by your imagination, budget and some times a caliber minimum. It's been like that in most states for long before my time. It's open to any and all, even your "muzzle loader".

 

[Bob Wright]

My best hunting memories came from stalking elk and pronghorn. All open sights. Getting in close.
Getting to a pronghorn within 150, crawling the last 800 in what looked like a golf course sprinkled with 8 inch high bushes here and there. I used a Thompson Center 50 and a Hawken 50 I built from a scaled drawing, to a real version.
All of the building and stalking really brought it home to me, how hard one had to work and do it back in the 1800's.
It's just thrilling to get in so close after seeing animals miles away in a spotting scope. Or getting into a herd of cows and a big bull so close without detection. It takes hours to run in washes and low spots. Crawling over ridges. Running, glassing....
What a gas!
If one prefers a scope, so be it.
But nothing beats the close in pursuit regardless if you are successful in the shot.

 

[VTbluegrass]

My rifle is radically different than 30 years ago, granted 30 years ago I was a small child... guess fair play I've significantly updated my red rider since I was 6.

The whole rational behind bows and muzzle loaders getting early seasons, special tags and times is to give them an advantage to offset the significant inefficiencies of primitive weapons. Eliminate those efficiencies and you eliminate the need for the special season. Most of those seasons were fought for by well meaning people packing hawkin style rifles fighting to maintain a tradition way of hunting. States responded with the special seasons, but many years later we've come to the point where regulators go "hey that's not why we give you special stuff". Probably the easiest way to do that was eliminate magnified optics.

Then we get to the good old fashioned red herring of "but but.... hypocrite ".

Rifle season is like open class, your only limited by your imagination, budget and some times a caliber minimum. It's been like that in most states for long before my time. It's open to any and all, even your "muzzle loader".

I was going to make a similar analogy the first time I read this about limiting optics, cap vs 209, etc being like restrictor plate racing. Taking away scopes isn't a personal affront or about ethics it's about why you get a special season for using a "less efficient" weapon.

I don't take it personal how someone else hunts as long as it's within the law. I use the most effective means allowed so yeah I would be ticked about trying to find irons again for my MZ that I took off years ago but hey that's the rules.

 

[Zen Archery]

Not sure if NM Muzzle Loader season is same as archery season. But if so, I get it and appreciate it.