New Member -- Advice/Experience Wanted!

[Brydawg512]

https://www.cabelas.com/product/hun...ortex-viper-pst-with-ebr/1941469.uts?slotId=2

Here's what I am looking at. Looks to be what I am looking for at a decent price. Should I hold out for an MOA scope or is it really not a huge deal to purchase a MRAD?

 

[Capt RB]

Yo

I agree the PST looks to be a better option from what I have gathered. Now, how do I go about using a reticle likelike the EBR-2C? I have seen the reticle that gives the 1/2 MOA ticks and 1 MOA tick and that seems to be the easiest to use, but I feel like that is just due to my lack of understanding. Ok, so that makes sense about the SFP. So, to practice, if you were on 6x on your rifle, zero would be 1/4 MOA up and 125/1000 MOA to the left (I feel like this isn't correct...)? Also, what do you mean by correcting your offset? Does this refer to the yardage you are shooting and how to adjust the MOA to shoot this distance? So I now know why a first focal plane makes sense for a hunting application (I am allowed to use an illuminated scope in my state). So, 4-16x50 or a 4-16x44 scope is suitable for my needs. I know I keep asking this question, but why is MOA more friendly to a first time user? Is it because it requires less field calculation then compared to an MRAD scope? I liked the price point of the 4-16x50 PST Vortex I found, but was somewhat discouraged when I found that I am only able to purchase it in MRAD.

You will have to shoot a SFP scope to find out what the offset is. Each mfg will have a different offset due to ratio of zoom, distance from magnifier to reticle and I'm sure a host of other things. I just use the shv's I have because I know them off the top of my head from using them.
Offset is when you have a zero for a ammunition and choose a different ammo that has a different zero. Or in the case I was talking about. The zero for 4x power is the 0 on the turret. The offset for shooting 14x is 1 moa up and 1/2 moa left. for the zero yardage. I use 100yds for my competition guns and 200 yds for my hunting guns. Mostly because I usually don't dial hunting due to very close shots being the norm for me.
For you to start in mrad is fine. Makes no difference. Mills are a product of 10 10 clicks =1 mil. You need 1.5 mils of lead for a walking target out to about 700yds for most standard cartridges. 3 mils for a jog/trot and 4.5 for a running target. In moa you are going to be using bigger numbers. 5.625 moa walking 11.25 jog and 16.75-17moa. Same with drops My 308 for instance is 32.85 moa to 1000yds or 9.56 mils. The difference in a reticle is that you have a much courser correction which equals a less cluttered reticle. This is a plus.
The fact it is less money answers your question already. Another plus is they come with zero stop shims. Once you have a solid load and zero you put the shims in as described in the manual(youtube is your friend here) Now when you use the turret when you come back to your zero you will have a solid stop a few clicks past that so you don't get lost and go an extra turn past your zero. I did this in my first prs event and it took me 2 stages to find it out. Do that in the field and you will miss that animal or worse wound it it with a poor hit

 

[Brydawg512]

Yo

You will have to shoot a SFP scope to find out what the offset is. Each mfg will have a different offset due to ratio of zoom, distance from magnifier to reticle and I'm sure a host of other things. I just use the shv's I have because I know them off the top of my head from using them.
Offset is when you have a zero for a ammunition and choose a different ammo that has a different zero. Or in the case I was talking about. The zero for 4x power is the 0 on the turret. The offset for shooting 14x is 1 moa up and 1/2 moa left. for the zero yardage. I use 100yds for my competition guns and 200 yds for my hunting guns. Mostly because I usually don't dial hunting due to very close shots being the norm for me.
For you to start in mrad is fine. Makes no difference. Mills are a product of 10 10 clicks =1 mil. You need 1.5 mils of lead for a walking target out to about 700yds for most standard cartridges. 3 mils for a jog/trot and 4.5 for a running target. In moa you are going to be using bigger numbers. 5.625 moa walking 11.25 jog and 16.75-17moa. Same with drops My 308 for instance is 32.85 moa to 1000yds or 9.56 mils. The difference in a reticle is that you have a much courser correction which equals a less cluttered reticle. This is a plus.
The fact it is less money answers your question already. Another plus is they come with zero stop shims. Once you have a solid load and zero you put the shims in as described in the manual(youtube is your friend here) Now when you use the turret when you come back to your zero you will have a solid stop a few clicks past that so you don't get lost and go an extra turn past your zero. I did this in my first prs event and it took me 2 stages to find it out. Do that in the field and you will miss that animal or worse wound it it with a poor hit

Ok, well that puts me at a bit more ease with starting using MRAD. So, say I am zeroed at 200 yards. I see my target at 450 yards (determined by rangefinder). How do I go about determing which turret I need to adjust and by how much? Thank you.

 

[Capt RB]

Your elevation is the top turret and your windage is the turret on the right hand side.
Before you do any shooting take the scope mounted or not doesn't matter set the parrallax knob to infinity. Now turn the diopter all the way in one direction.
Now pointing at the clear sky (not the sun) open your eye for a few seconds then close. Keep adjusting the diopter till you have a perfectly focused reticle. This is must to do. Mount the scope and set up the rifle at the range on target. Now adjust the parralax knob so the target is in perfect focus. The numbers are close to the yardage but not always. Now move your head if the reticle moves on the target you have parrallax so readjust the the knob till the target doesn't move if you move your head. If the reticle isn't crips adjust the diopter a bit til it is. I use a sharpie to mark that so I can always check it(kids are always touching stuff)
Once you have a correction from a dope card or ballistic solver. You would move the turret(s) in the direction you want the bullet to go. You want impat 3.2 mils from your zero the turret will have an arrow pointing in the direction of up (counter clockwise on that scope) move the turret from the zero up the 3.2 mills or 32 clicks on that model. If your wind is 1 mil right wind hold the 1 mil hash mark into the wind. You can dial that if you wish but for inside of a 1/2 mile your better off just using the reticle for windage.
Phone apps to get I have the free strelok and the hornady 4DOF also free.
The strelok has the 4-16 mrad ebr-1c reticle in their library. The Hornady 4dof has all of their bullets and all the good ones from others. That has been very good for me using the 147eldm the 178eldm and 175 and 168 smk. I didn't have to correct the 147 and the 178 was off because I had 130fps velocity difference from not using my magneto speed.
There are alot of good apps and JBM online is great.
Shoot in crappy weather to learn what wind will do. Bes if you can shoot while it's snowing. You can see the changes and the effects on target in real time without a guess. Good luck and enjoy your journey

 

[Brydawg512]

Your elevation is the top turret and your windage is the turret on the right hand side.
Before you do any shooting take the scope mounted or not doesn't matter set the parrallax knob to infinity. Now turn the diopter all the way in one direction.
Now pointing at the clear sky (not the sun) open your eye for a few seconds then close. Keep adjusting the diopter till you have a perfectly focused reticle. This is must to do. Mount the scope and set up the rifle at the range on target. Now adjust the parralax knob so the target is in perfect focus. The numbers are close to the yardage but not always. Now move your head if the reticle moves on the target you have parrallax so readjust the the knob till the target doesn't move if you move your head. If the reticle isn't crips adjust the diopter a bit til it is. I use a sharpie to mark that so I can always check it(kids are always touching stuff)
Once you have a correction from a dope card or ballistic solver. You would move the turret(s) in the direction you want the bullet to go. You want impat 3.2 mils from your zero the turret will have an arrow pointing in the direction of up (counter clockwise on that scope) move the turret from the zero up the 3.2 mills or 32 clicks on that model. If your wind is 1 mil right wind hold the 1 mil hash mark into the wind. You can dial that if you wish but for inside of a 1/2 mile your better off just using the reticle for windage.
Phone apps to get I have the free strelok and the hornady 4DOF also free.
The strelok has the 4-16 mrad ebr-1c reticle in their library. The Hornady 4dof has all of their bullets and all the good ones from others. That has been very good for me using the 147eldm the 178eldm and 175 and 168 smk. I didn't have to correct the 147 and the 178 was off because I had 130fps velocity difference from not using my magneto speed.
There are alot of good apps and JBM online is great.
Shoot in crappy weather to learn what wind will do. Bes if you can shoot while it's snowing. You can see the changes and the effects on target in real time without a guess. Good luck and enjoy your journey

Ok, seems to make a bit more sense now. I guess what I am trying to get at it how do you determine how many mils you need to adjust it by? Both distance and windage?

 

[Capt RB]

https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/ballistic-calculators/#!/
https://www.google.com/search?q=How...+solution&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-

 

[Brydawg512]

https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/ballistic-calculators/#!/
https://www.google.com/search?q=How...+solution&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-

Ok thank you. So, once I determine the round I am going to use, I will zero my rifle at 200 yards. Then to create my drop chart, is the only information I need the ballistic coefficient and muzzle velocity? I am unsure how to account for weather variables, as those can change by the hour where I hunt.

 

[WildRose]

I agree the PST looks to be a better option from what I have gathered. Now, how do I go about using a reticle likelike the EBR-2C? I have seen the reticle that gives the 1/2 MOA ticks and 1 MOA tick and that seems to be the easiest to use, but I feel like that is just due to my lack of understanding. Ok, so that makes sense about the SFP. So, to practice, if you were on 6x on your rifle, zero would be 1/4 MOA up and 125/1000 MOA to the left (I feel like this isn't correct...)? Also, what do you mean by correcting your offset? Does this refer to the yardage you are shooting and how to adjust the MOA to shoot this distance? So I now know why a first focal plane makes sense for a hunting application (I am allowed to use an illuminated scope in my state). So, 4-16x50 or a 4-16x44 scope is suitable for my needs. I know I keep asking this question, but why is MOA more friendly to a first time user? Is it because it requires less field calculation then compared to an MRAD scope? I liked the price point of the 4-16x50 PST Vortex I found, but was somewhat discouraged when I found that I am only able to purchase it in MRAD.

With an SFP scope the ticks will only be accurate on one power setting and your scopes user manual will explain that in detail for you. There will also be an obvious mark on the power ring indicating same.

 

[WildRose]

Ok thank you. So, once I determine the round I am going to use, I will zero my rifle at 200 yards. Then to create my drop chart, is the only information I need the ballistic coefficient and muzzle velocity? I am unsure how to account for weather variables, as those can change by the hour where I hunt.

There are lots of very accurate ballistic apps available to give you exact dope for any shot. You just have to enter the data and it will give you the correct dope.

Drop cards will give you a close approximation for the conditions you set when running them through a calculator or based off of a drop chart from a reloading manual or other data set.

 

[Brydawg512]

With an SFP scope the ticks will only be accurate on one power setting and your scopes user manual will explain that in detail for you. There will also be an obvious mark on the power ring indicating same.

Understood. So, I take it you could sight in each power setting for different ranges?

 

[Brydawg512]

There are lots of very accurate ballistic apps available to give you exact dope for any shot. You just have to enter the data and it will give you the correct dope.

Drop cards will give you a close approximation for the conditions you set when running them through a calculator or based off of a drop chart from a reloading manual or other data set.

Ok. So with variable hunting scenarios a drop card with rough estimates is what needs to be done? Realistically, I won't be shooting over 500 yards by much.

 

[WildRose]

Understood. So, I take it you could sight in each power setting for different ranges?

No, just use the same marked power setting if you are going to use the scale on the reticle.

 

[WildRose]

Ok. So with variable hunting scenarios a drop card with rough estimates is what needs to be done? Realistically, I won't be shooting over 500 yards by much.

You'll always be more accurate calculating the dope for each shot. Try downloading shooter or one of the other apps for your phone and practice with it.

Drop cards are good for a quick, rough calculation, that's about it. To be more accurate you should make up one for the elevation and average temp/humidity conditions where you plan to be hunting.

You'll still have to estimate your wind adjustment but the drop card will get you close on the elevation adjustment.

 

[lamiglas]

Capt RB. I am trying hard to understand what you mean by... "The zero for 4x power is the 0 on the turret. The offset for shooting 14x is 1 moa up and 1/2 moa left" Please know that I am not looking for an argument, i just really do not know what you are referring to by this? I do understand that the value of the distance between the tick marks in the reticle changes at different power settings on a sfp...is that what you are referring to? Also, admittedly, I have never used a front focal plane scope. To the OP, this has been a fun thread to watch, and your asking good questions and getting alot of great advice. Better yet, you are listening and have come along way from where you started already!