It's one of my top 3 sites for getting real life feedback with useful info to follow. I can read something online and copy somebody else's claim to another forum. These guys always provide pics, videos and realistic numbers.
Muzzle brakes...
- Thread starter Nubba0681
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
When I first became interested in muzzle brake design was many years ago. I am a veteran and did not like the abuse that service men were subjected to when shooting the 50 BMG. many claimed sinus problems after 20 to 30 rounds, the spotters had it worse.
When I bought mine I was told not to shoot it unless I had both ear plugs and ear muffs. Recoil was marginal but manageable. My goal was to reduce the noise, recoil and the signature. (If possible)
The first step was to shoot it without a brake (Bad idea) . here are the results
50 BMG Barrett M82 A1
Rifle weight 33 pounds.
750 grain Hornady A max.
250 grains US 869 or 248 grains of H 50 BMG
Velocity 2944 ft/sec
Recoil without brake = 117 ft /lbs
With Barrett fish gill brake (Backwards angled ports) = 64.7 ft/lbs
With 5 port Assassin = 43.3 ft/lbs
The concussion problem was improved to a level allowing the use of ear plugs by them selves without them being blown out of your ears from the pressure wave to the sinuses (This actually happened to one of the shooters shooting without both the ear plugs and the ear muffs).
The flash signature was reduced to almost zero and the gas impact to the spotter was reduced significantly.
The 5 port Assassin has the same volume as the Barrett brake so there was no advantage in volume of ether type of brake. Maybe the Barrett brake is not as efficient as other angled port brakes, and although a 21 ft/lb improvement may not sound like much in percentages but considering that is the average recoil of a 30/06 I could tell/feel the difference.
To date I have not found an angle brake that would equal the Assassin with progressive ports or straight ports. Some have been within 4 or 5 ft/lbs but the blast effect rendered them unusable compared to other designs.
This information is arrived through testing and is the reason I believe it. In theory the angled ports should be better but with the bore hole in the Brake working against the ports, efficiency of the brake can more than offset any advantage it may have.
Just my experiences through testing
J E CUSTOM
Barrett Brakes = The Tossed Salad Effect, That's what we called it back in the day, The McMillians were worse, it felt like you couldn't breathe for a second or twoWhen I first became interested in muzzle brake design was many years ago. I am a veteran and did not like the abuse that service men were subjected to when shooting the 50 BMG. many claimed sinus problems after 20 to 30 rounds, the spotters had it worse.
When I bought mine I was told not to shoot it unless I had both ear plugs and ear muffs. Recoil was marginal but manageable. My goal was to reduce the noise, recoil and the signature. (If possible)
The first step was to shoot it without a brake (Bad idea) . here are the results
50 BMG Barrett M82 A1
Rifle weight 33 pounds.
750 grain Hornady A max.
250 grains US 869 or 248 grains of H 50 BMG
Velocity 2944 ft/sec
Recoil without brake = 117 ft /lbs
With Barrett fish gill brake (Backwards angled ports) = 64.7 ft/lbs
With 5 port Assassin = 43.3 ft/lbs
The concussion problem was improved to a level allowing the use of ear plugs by them selves without them being blown out of your ears from the pressure wave to the sinuses (This actually happened to one of the shooters shooting without both the ear plugs and the ear muffs).
The flash signature was reduced to almost zero and the gas impact to the spotter was reduced significantly.
The 5 port Assassin has the same volume as the Barrett brake so there was no advantage in volume of ether type of brake. Maybe the Barrett brake is not as efficient as other angled port brakes, and although a 21 ft/lb improvement may not sound like much in percentages but considering that is the average recoil of a 30/06 I could tell/feel the difference.
To date I have not found an angle brake that would equal the Assassin with progressive ports or straight ports. Some have been within 4 or 5 ft/lbs but the blast effect rendered them unusable compared to other designs.
This information is arrived through testing and is the reason I believe it. In theory the angled ports should be better but with the bore hole in the Brake working against the ports, efficiency of the brake can more than offset any advantage it may have.
Just my experiences through testing
J E CUSTOM
JE
I never said anything about these brakes. I don't have experience with them to have an opinion. I believe they works as you say.
I shot a dual 50 in the army back when I was 19. No protection. Wasn't nice.
What I said is that from my experience with the BOSS, and those are then only brakes I have that are not 90 degrees, the shooter does not feel it, but people to his left or right will feel it. That is my experience and I own many BOSS rifles
I never said anything about these brakes. I don't have experience with them to have an opinion. I believe they works as you say.
I shot a dual 50 in the army back when I was 19. No protection. Wasn't nice.
What I said is that from my experience with the BOSS, and those are then only brakes I have that are not 90 degrees, the shooter does not feel it, but people to his left or right will feel it. That is my experience and I own many BOSS rifles
concussion hurts after having some close explosions your insides hurt and the next day you will be sore all over . You will see people with internal head injuries from it . I have seen where people and animals were just dead showing no signs of injuries to the out side of the body from concussion . If you are receiving sinus damage you also are receiving some amount of trauma to your brain , I personally don't have enough brain cells in use as it is . And that sir's is why I believe in doing the research and making the improvements to things such as muzzle brakes , A good design helps and a bad design hurts more then some will ever know . I have only had experience with one brake and it was a bad design so it hurt thus I haven't tried any more and is the reason that this thread is so interesting to me Thank You to those that test for my good . Now that my neck and back are fussed I can't take much recoil a 30-06 is about as much as I want to have and I have hearing aids to hear well now as well so even with them out , plugs and muffs in and on I don't want much in the line of higher decibels either but still I enjoy and want to shoot so again thank you to those that research such things as breaks .
Have you shot the same rifle back to back, supressed vs braked? Brakes provide way more recoil reduction over the can.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
Being as this is just a discussion, there is one more comment I will make about the load cell method.
After reviewing all the data before we decided on the method we did we realized that the load cell had to be mounted solid for it it be accurate (No movement during firing) This could explain the reason it has 4 % variance in the readings. We also wanted to control the recoil distance to minimize inertia skewing the results. and possibly damaging rifle stocks and other accessories by restricting any movement. In Hatcher's notes at Aberdeen proving ground they/he used the same system we did to test muzzle brakes for the government with unlimited funds at his disposable.
It was important to try and duplicate conditions when firing, but several inches travel wasn't enough to separate small changes in recoil, so we decided to go with approximately twice the travel when fired against the shoulder.
Just more info for those interested.
J E CUSTOM
After reviewing all the data before we decided on the method we did we realized that the load cell had to be mounted solid for it it be accurate (No movement during firing) This could explain the reason it has 4 % variance in the readings. We also wanted to control the recoil distance to minimize inertia skewing the results. and possibly damaging rifle stocks and other accessories by restricting any movement. In Hatcher's notes at Aberdeen proving ground they/he used the same system we did to test muzzle brakes for the government with unlimited funds at his disposable.
It was important to try and duplicate conditions when firing, but several inches travel wasn't enough to separate small changes in recoil, so we decided to go with approximately twice the travel when fired against the shoulder.
Just more info for those interested.
J E CUSTOM
I am sure someone has done it already, but I haven't seen it, a comparison of the concussion and noise lever at the shooter and then 2, 4, 6 feet to his left and right for different brakes, and without brakes.
Don't get me wrong, I like brakes, only two of my rifles do not have them and that's because I want to keep them factory condition/collector guns.
Don't get me wrong, I like brakes, only two of my rifles do not have them and that's because I want to keep them factory condition/collector guns.
I answered my own questions. I found a test
precisionrifleblog.com
Muzzle Brakes: Sound Test
I thought about these muzzle brake tests for over a year before I started this field test. We all kn...
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
I answered my own questions. I found a test
Muzzle Brakes: Sound Test
I thought about these muzzle brake tests for over a year before I started this field test. We all kn...
While testing our brakes, we also wanted to see what/how changes to the brakes effected the DB levels. As stated in the Video, we were never sure if our DB meter was accurate but as long as it was consistent and could measure differences with accuracy, we felt it was a good comparator.
With the meter we used we did find that The amount of DB remained the same In different locations, But the Position change did effect the level that the shooter or bystander received, and the perception was definitely different depending on the location.
Also the design of the brake made a huge/noticeable perceived difference to any person depending on their location from the muzzle brake. The way the brake distributes the gasses and where they are shot (In the open , under a shed or next to something that can bonce the sound off and back on the shooter,Also have a bearing on how much we perceive.
Like the Video said, It is not an exact science and should only be for comparison. It did however show that different designs made a huge difference in the perceived sound.
Thanks for the Video
J E CUSTOM
tony d willIiams
Well-Known Member
The concussion from my 338LM I do not notice unless I get careless and do not install my plugs and muffs. I have noticed that desert rocks in a 15 foot radius are cracking and breaking.
I can now blame my forgetfulness and irrational thinking on my shoot, rather than old age and Alzenheimers.
SavageHunter11
Well-Known Member
I use APA (fat, small, micro) Bastard breaks and I have never had any of the issues you have had but I'm also young and dumb and maybe I just don't notice it but APA is one of the top brands used by the pro's at PRS and I would think they wouldn't use it if it gave them headaches and face fulls ofI need recommendations on a new brake.
I have some of the best in the business as far as less felt recoil but I can't handle the blowback/concussion on my bigger guns. I can shoot 10-12 times and I have a headache and a face full ofevery single trigger pull. I'm looking for a brake that has less blowback. I can deal with some recoil and noise is not an issue but I can't do much more of the ports blowing directly in my face. I may sound like a whiney baby but I have got to change something up...
. Also I have one rifle that came with an SLR SR-30 muzzle brake and that one has been fine as well.
