Most powerful lever action cartridge

[boscodog]

Even in just the WWM chamber, I drove GS Custom 400s at 2275, 350s at 2500, and 300s at 2700+

Dose the www stand for Wild West magnum-457, and what bullet does GS stand for? Also what powder and amount do you use for the 400's.

Tom

 

[Extremist458]

Even in just the WWM chamber, I drove GS Custom 400s at 2275, 350s at 2500, and 300s at 2700+

Dose the www stand for Wild West magnum-457, and what bullet does GS stand for? Also what powder and amount do you use for the 400's.

Tom

457WWM is the Wild West Mag. It's the same as 45-70 plus 0.100" OAL.

GS Custom bullets is a company that makes bullets. Solid copper drive band FN.

Reloader 7 and H322. Click the Gunblast link as well. I had 24 Marlin XLR, Paco had a ported 18.5" guide gun.

 

[dundonrl]

I don't know much about the 50 Alaskan or the 475 Turnbull, but was impressed with the 45/70, So I decided to look at the "Factory" loadings and this is what I found. This may not be all the loads you can buy from the factory, but it should be close. these were the highest muzzle energy's I was able to find.

444 = Muzzle energy 3180 ft/lbs
45/70 = (In modern rifles) Muzzle energy 3309 ft/lbs.
450 Marlin = muzzle energy 3572 ft/lbs
460 S&W = (fired in a 26"barreled rifle) Muzzle energy 3861 ft/lbs.
500 S&W = Could not find any data for loads fired in a rifle, but when both the 460 and 500 were fired in pistols with the same barrel lengths they were very close (10 to 15 ft/lbs because of the higher velocity of the 460).
50 Alaskan = 4406 ft/lbs of muzzle energy.

I couldn't find any of the other cartridges mentioned that factory ammo was available in so that's where my search ended.

Note: these are all very powerful cartridges and should be fired in modern rifles. there are lots of 45/70s that cant handle these loads and should be limited to the loads that will produce 1600 ft/lbs
of muzzle energy.

They are all good performers and will do everything ask of them within reason.

The figures above should give a good representation of there power and use. And availability, price of ammo and rifles will most likely determine which one is best for the shooter.

So to answer the OPs question, There is no good answer because of usability, rifle weight, velocity/trajectory, recoil, ammo cost and availability, bullet selection, ETC. The most powerful may not be the best performer.

J E CUSTOM

The same manufacturer of the Model 89 and 90 lever guns recently came out with the 500 Automax, (based on the AR-10) all they did was turn down the rim on the 500 S&W Magnum (the loads are identical otherwise) and they are getting 4100+ ft lbs out of them with the 18" bbl AR 500.

 

[Locknload]

Of course. The Ruger brothers #1 & #3 are lever actions capable of shooting anything you can get in them. However, the real motor scooter of all lever guns is the Panzerbuchse 39, falling block AT rifle, shooting a 240 gr tungsten carbide core AP bullet out of about a 36 inch barrel from a German 20mm AT case necked to 8mm running about 1,200 mps. That is meters per second or 3,900 fps. Note there is no recoil system built into the 25 pound gun. I understand from old German soldiers, it took a Gross a Mann (big man) to carry and shoot one of these. The recoil was about 12" for man and gun, sliding on the ground with toes sideways so they do not dig in. Copy and put it in your search engine to see this WWII beauty. The lever is the trigger group itself, hinged in the front, you unlock it, the trigger guard pulls down at the rear, dropping the action block, ejecting the shell and you insert a new round, bring the rear of trigger group up, the lever, lock it, grit teeth and hang on, it is ready to rock.
Ed

PANZERBUCHSE 39

 

[Methow Packer]

"The most" of anything usually comes with something impractical. A 45-70 is plenty of medicine with a good bullet and can be found in a fast handling package that won't get left at the cabin when it should be in your hand. A 444 is very good with hard cast lead bullets but the reality is, it can't do anything a 45-70 can do.

I have the Marlin Cowboy 26" 45-70 cowboy I've smoothed up and with a nice 3.5 trigger pull. I load hard cast wide flat nose bullets running close to 2000fps. It's all I want to shoot. Plenty accurate with gost ring sights. Fits well on my horse right frt or left rear under the saddle bag. I have a lot of confidence with it. Never confronted a griz. Sure don't want to but north central Washington by the boarder they're coming in outfitter camps. Too bad. All I need in dangerous country. Plenty of rounds in the magazine. 8 I think. Quicker than a bolt. Lots of energy. Lots of recoil but the octagonal 26" barrel and limb saver pad makes it quite tolerable. I'll hang on to this one forever.

 

[Mike 338]

I have the Marlin Cowboy 26" 45-70 cowboy I've smoothed up and with a nice 3.5 trigger pull. I load hard cast wide flat nose bullets running close to 2000fps. It's all I want to shoot. Plenty accurate with gost ring sights. Fits well on my horse right frt or left rear under the saddle bag. I have a lot of confidence with it. Never confronted a griz. Sure don't want to but north central Washington by the boarder they're coming in outfitter camps. Too bad. All I need in dangerous country. Plenty of rounds in the magazine. 8 I think. Quicker than a bolt. Lots of energy. Lots of recoil but the octagonal 26" barrel and limb saver pad makes it quite tolerable. I'll hang on to this one forever.

I wouldn't mind seeing how you carry it on the horse.

 

[Dean2]

Interesting discussion but it is completely academic. I have shot literally many hundreds of bears with every lever caliber made. The 45/70 with 350 grain Horn RN at 1800 fps is all the lever gun you will ever need to kill any bear walking, black, griz, polar or Kodiak. I have shot them from 1400 fps to 2200 fps and the sweet spot is about 1800-1900 fps. Yes you can make them go faster and produce more calculated ME but they don't kill any better.

Big bores kill by making a BIG hole and penetrating all the way through a bear or moose, no matter what angle they are shot from. I have shot moose from the front and the bullet exited out the backside of the animal. There is no hydrostatic shock with one of these big bullets so the lower recoil from a slightly slower round makes for far faster second shots. Of the hundreds of bears I shot with a 45/70 very few needed a second round. Tens of thousands of Buffalo died from 45/70s shot at 1300 fps. They are also extremely accurate.

It is an interesting discussion to discuss just how big a lever gun has ever been made but the 405 and 45/70 is more than enough gun for anything on the planet.

 

[Antonio m]

The most potent big bore levergun. I moved over to a Browning BLR .450 Marlin. / takedown. With a spare clip in my pocket and unrestricted bullet choice it is right up there. It makes a 1/2" hole and is a fairly high pressure round. Tough to beat the box style magazine and I like all leverguns.

 

[boscodog]

You are absolutely right, well said Dean2!

Thank

 

[memtb]

J E Custom, As usual, you beat me with the correct answer! But, for those of us of near normal financial means.... it's pretty hard to beat a Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70, running hard cast, wide metplat bullets, north of 400 grains (I'm planning on 430's), pushed hard! memtb

 

[Antonio m]

I don't know if others feel this way and have only owned one Marlin GBL 45/70.
This was a Remlin, it shot well enough and cycled well enough but I sold it because It felt cheap .
I handloaded for it, with no real issues except the brass was extraordinarily light duty and purchased a Browning BLR/ .450 .
On paper / thru the chronograph it is comparable but as a hunting rifle the .450 is superior, imo. The cartridge case is heavier walled and belted and designed for higher pressures and has a detachable box magazine.
In the past I worked as a Game guide and was asked to work for an outfitter here on some spring Grizzly hunts- and then the season was closed. I still carry it quite a bit , this area is Grizzly country and I am horseback. It is a great saddle rifle. No regrets moving to the .450 Marlin .My little old opinion.Cheers