Mass Shootings - Why?

[Orange Dust]

Sometimes you just have to cut your losses.

I did try.

 

[vedauvoo]

The freedom to keep and bear arms is not a right granted by our government. It is a reminder and warning that we have freedom from government intrusion. We have the inalienable right to use the same means to defend ourselves as allowed by the security forces which the government funds (through our tax dollars) for their protection.

In Canada just this week, Justin Trudeau and his labor party proposed a freeze to the sale, importation, and transfer of handguns. By Biden's own admission, although he would like to do the same, his hands are tied by the 2nd Amendment.

The bill of rights come from God? I thought that was the Bible. The simple fact is that your explanation of a militia kind of shows that the 2nd amendment is way out of date unless of course you misspoke and want to take it back. The 2nd amendment does not say your right to own a gun protects your freedom. It says a well regulated militia is necessary for the security of a free state. As you pointed out, we have no well regulated militias and that their purpose was to take the place of a standing army because our forefathers did not want a standing army. The simple fact is that we have a standing army and no militias. The 2nd amendment needs to be rewritten or we need to bring back well regulated militias because as it is written, it makes no sense.

Now, maybe more than ever, the 2nd Amendment makes perfect sense.

 

[LkeAF]

Boy, this has been some good reading. If nothing else, I appreciate that it has continued. Muddy has tried to keep it on track. And there are actually some people on here trying to debate ideas. I like all of that. And I am in support of having armed guards at schools. And I'm not opposed to giving teachers permission to arm themselves. But, you can't really think that this will be much of a solution. If 19 of Texas' finest wearing the biggest cowboy hats you can imagine can't find the cajones to challenge a teenager with an AR, then how do you expect a teacher or a kid to? Just sayin'.... Carry on....

 

[antelopedundee]

This whole ...well regulated militia question was exhaustively examined in "District of Columbia v. Heller". Justice Antonin Scalia's majority opinion is 64 pages of weighty reading, but there is an excellent one-page summary by Ed Whelan in National Review, June 26, 2008:

District of Columbia v. Heller: Scalia’s Majority Opinion | National Review

Here’s a quick (and, given its 64 pages, necessarily highly selective) summary of Justice Scalia’s opinion for a 5-member majority in District of Columbia v. Heller, invalidating D.C.’s handgun ban…

www.nationalreview.com

From that summary a quote from Scalia:

The prefatory clause [a well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State,] "fits perfectly" with the operative clause [the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed], as the founding generation knew that "the way tyrants had eliminated a militia … was not by banning the militia but simply by taking away the people's arms, enabling a select militia or standing army to suppress political opponents." (25) But the prefatory clause "does not suggest that preserving the militia was the only reason Americans valued the ancient right; most undoubtedly thought it even more important for self-defense and hunting."

So yeah, the 2nd amendment is all about protecting our freedom.

To go further the "militia" had no duty [as don't the police and National Guard today] to "protect" the individual citizen so it was incumbent upon them to be able to protect themselves; hence the second part of 2A.

 

[xsn10s]

Boy, this has been some good reading. If nothing else, I appreciate that it has continued. Muddy has tried to keep it on track. And there are actually some people on here trying to debate ideas. I like all of that. And I am in support of having armed guards at schools. And I'm not opposed to giving teachers permission to arm themselves. But, you can't really think that this will be much of a solution. If 19 of Texas' finest wearing the biggest cowboy hats you can imagine can't find the cajones to challenge a teenager with an AR, then how do you expect a teacher or a kid to? Just sayin'.... Carry on....

That same week a lady stopped a shooter with her legal firearm. A Vice Principal in Oklahoma stopped a school shooter with his firearm after he retrieved it. Armed citizens stop criminals all the time. Some kids have died trying to protect others from danger. As have teachers.

 

[xsn10s]

Woman credited with stopping mass shooting at apartment complex in West Virginia

Police say a woman's actions may have prevented a mass casualty event following an altercation about a man speeding through a neighborhood.

www.wral.com

 

[JimFromTN]

I believe you have unearthed a Troll.

Its funny that when someone does not agree with the majority in a thread, they are called a troll because if they weren't a troll they would agree with everyone. It throws the whole echo chamber out of wack when someone does not fall in line with the majority and it causes people to get flustered and scream troll.

 

[vedauvoo]

Woman credited with stopping mass shooting at apartment complex in West Virginia

Police say a woman's actions may have prevented a mass casualty event following an altercation about a man speeding through a neighborhood.

www.wral.com

Quite a story! A guy pulls an AR and starts shooting at a group celebrating a graduation. The woman pulls her legally carried handgun and kills the guy before anyone a the party was harmed.

The media reaction to this story? ...crickets. Imagine how different coverage would have been if the guy killed a bunch of these young partygoers.

 

[vedauvoo]

Its funny that when someone does not agree with the majority in a thread, they are called a troll because if they weren't a troll they would agree with everyone. It throws the whole echo chamber out of wack when someone does not fall in line with the majority and it causes people to get flustered and scream troll.

I appreciate that you are making well thought counterpoints to the general consensus here. It keeps everyone stimulated and thinking. That promotes reasoned and thoughtful discourse.

That is not trolling.

 

[Orange Dust]

Boy, this has been some good reading. If nothing else, I appreciate that it has continued. Muddy has tried to keep it on track. And there are actually some people on here trying to debate ideas. I like all of that. And I am in support of having armed guards at schools. And I'm not opposed to giving teachers permission to arm themselves. But, you can't really think that this will be much of a solution. If 19 of Texas' finest wearing the biggest cowboy hats you can imagine can't find the cajones to challenge a teenager with an AR, then how do you expect a teacher or a kid to? Just sayin'.... Carry on....

Teachers have the same right to self defense I you and I do.

Its funny that when someone does not agree with the majority in a thread, they are called a troll because if they weren't a troll they would agree with everyone. It throws the whole echo chamber out of wack when someone does not fall in line with the majority and it causes people to get flustered and scream troll.

Jim, I never called you a troll either. I have been patient and respectful, even though some of your posts sound that way. I really think it would be different if we were having a real conversation instead of posting thoughts. I have trouble with shortening what I think in posts simply because I am terrible at typing and go for the main idea. I am not alone.

 

[Orange Dust]

Let me try and get back on track and refocus. When my wife and I married, the Minister would not marry us until we had several counseling sessions with him both together and separate. They lasted throughout our engagement, and through our first year. He said he wanted folks he married to stay that way. Don't know how normal this is, but he did teach us how to live together and we are still married 28 years later with no end in sight. I think this is a good start and idea for rebuilding the nuclear family. All problems begin at home IMO. I think this, or something like it is essential for raising good kids. They need the stability.

Let me add a little to this because I think it is both relevant and important. My oldest daughter went through the same counseling and has been happily married for nearly 9 years. The other one eloped and got married at a courthouse. Her marriage lasted just long enough to get pregnant. Easy to see why I think there is something to this, and why it is needed. YMMV but its the basis for starting a functioning Family IMO. I would love to know the percentage of Shooters that come from a non-functional family. I know it is high, and this is basis of where we need to start with a culture change in this Country IMO. I know it is rude to reply to your own post but this is a big deal to me.

 

[JimFromTN]

I can't let this one pass unchallenged. Regarding the Ryan Busse interview, as the fact checkers are fond of saying, "Lacks context."

Ryan Busse is interviewed by Greg Sargent in an opinion piece published in the Washington Post. He has found a niche among Progressives, much as Adam Kinsinger and Liz Cheney and the notorious Lincoln Project Anti-Trumpers. His writing is in the New York Times, The Dailey Beast, and the New Yorker, all noted for their gymnastics in pushing the cause of Progressivism-facts be d*****. He is on CNN with Chris Hayes and Christiane Amanpour. He's chatting with Trevor Noah. He published one book: Gunfight: My Battle Against the Industry that Radicalized America, in October 2021. He is everywhere a good Progressive preacher should be.

When your tool is a hammer, every problem becomes a nail. And he loves to hammer him some AR-15s. That has been his ticket to modern day relativism.

Just because progressives loved what he has written does not make him wrong or that he is lying. If you read his story, he got tired of falling in lock step with the industry. His wife supports everything he wrote. He said she was the main reason he started questioning his actions. There is no indication that he did it for money or that he wanted to be the token traitor for the progressives. He was the vice president of a weapons manufacturer and I imagine he made pretty good money and would have probably made allot more staying in the industry and playing along. Also, why hasn't his former employer come out and denied his allegations? As for Cheney, she believes in what she is doing and is risking re-election. With the exception of Romney, which I am sure you hate as well, she has bigger balls than all the other republicans in the senate put together. The only reason most of those people got behind Trump was in fear for their jobs. You can't tell me that they didn't hate his guts when he got first elected. The lincoln project is made up of republicans who don't like the direction the party went in when it elected Trump. They want to take the party back to what it was. Its their right. It does not make them traitors. I don't know why but when people put their livelihoods on the line because of principle, they gain respect with me even if I don't agree with them.

 

[WahooYahoo]

The bill of rights come from God? I thought that was the Bible. The simple fact is that your explanation of a militia kind of shows that the 2nd amendment is way out of date unless of course you misspoke and want to take it back. The 2nd amendment does not say your right to own a gun protects your freedom. It says a well regulated militia is necessary for the security of a free state. As you pointed out, we have no well regulated militias and that their purpose was to take the place of a standing army because our forefathers did not want a standing army. The simple fact is that we have a standing army and no militias. The 2nd amendment needs to be rewritten or we need to bring back well regulated militias because as it is written, it makes no sense.

" It says a well regulated militia is necessary for the security of a free state." That is the why.
The meat of it is "shall not be infringed". That's not ambiguous.

There is no requirement for a militia in the amendment, but there is the protection of our right to keep and bear arms should we ever need to have a militia. It is not dependent on activity having a militia… it's not use it or loose it.

The pro-socialist movement has been spewing such untruths for years.

 

[JimFromTN]

Jim, I never called you a troll either. I have been patient and respectful, even though some of your posts sound that way. I really think it would be different if we were having a real conversation instead of posting thoughts. I have trouble with shortening what I think in posts simply because I am terrible at typing and go for the main idea. I am not alone.

I did not say you did but you did play along with it but that is ok because it was in good fun. I appreciate your patience. I try to do the same with you. If I have been insulting or disrespectful, I sincerely apologize. My posts question when people don't want to be questioned and it upsets them. If something does not make sense to me, I have a tendency to question. I consider myself a student and always will until my last breathe and a good student always questions regardless of how unpopular the question is. Just because I am for the 2nd amendment does not mean I can't pose questions and discuss it. I appreciate your explanations and it causes me to think and research but unfortunately that brings up other questions so I want to discuss further. Thank you for indulging my ignorance and helping to educate me.