Long Range Elk Gun

[MMERSS]

Using a hit probability analyzer:

10" square target

97% chance of hit

Standard atmosphere

1MOA rifle/ammo/shooter precision potential (optimistic precision potential for factory ammunition with a hunter with limited practice)

Wind uncertainty 1 MPH (estimate a full value crosswind within 1 MPH 67% of the time and 2 MPH 99% of the time)

MV-SD of 10 fps (very good for factory reloads)

1 yard range uncertainty

7mm high BC 195 gr bullet (.387 G7)

Velocity 2600 fps – range corresponding to 97% chance of hit – 563 yards-1700 ftlbs impact energy

Velocity 3300 fps- range corresponding to 97% chance of hit- 632 yards-2700 ftlbs impact energy

Under these estimates, there is approximately a 70 yard difference with same chance of hit between a cartridge pushing a 7mm 195 gr high BC bullet at 2600 fps and a cartridge pushing the same bullet 3300 fps.

280 AI, 7 WSM, 7 Mag, 7-300, 7 STW, 7 RUM, 7-338 Lapua?

How would the information above inform decisions?

This vs. This, or That vs. That vs. That seem to engross pages of discussion. With realism, is there "that" much difference between certain cartridges or should the nature of discussion be better utilized with the primary causes to a hit or miss?

 

[treillw]

So I'm pretty sure that I'm going to go with the Lane Precision Ultimate rifle. What do you guys think?

Ultimate

 

[Barrelnut]

So I'm pretty sure that I'm going to go with the Lane Precision Ultimate rifle. What do you guys think?

Ultimate

WHOO hoo! NICE!

 

[MMERSS]

Wind uncertainty 1 MPH (estimate a full value crosswind within 1 MPH 67% of the time and 2 MPH 99% of the time)

Sorry, fat fingered thinking ahead, 2 MPH would be 95% of the time with 3 MPH 99%. This sort of reminds me why I use range cards as backup to verify computed data. Garbage in garbage out. Consideration should be made to use an alternate method to check firing solution data......and others that noticed the error should point it out!

 

[4xforfun]

I would rethink this statement. I used to "set up scopes" and figure up range cards for a few people, but don't any more. I think that to shoot game at long range you should understand balistics at long range. Have someone do it for you and all you are is a dial turner with zero understanding of exactly what you are doing. Something doesn't work one time and you are screwed untill you bring it back to your scope guru. Also, you will lose confidence in your setup!!!
Do it yourself. ALL OF IT!!! Study how to do the math and how to figure xx moa = xxxx inches at xxxx yards. It is fairly simple. Learn how to center your scope, set your dials to zero at your perfered range, set your own paralex, adjust your occular lense to your eye, ect........

Once you learn it, it will be second nature for you, and you can easily do it for ALL of your setup's. You will have confidence in your setup and you will be able to tweek it if things go south. I feel this is as important as which gun maker/ caliber you choose.....and it is FOREVER!!!!!!

Just my .02.,
Tod

PS This the setup on my 300 WBY. Windage is in feet.

 

[4xforfun]

This is on my 338 Edge. The windage is in MOA.

 

[treillw]

Now I guess we can delve into the caliber discussion, since I'm pretty set on the rifle. I'm sure there are 100's of other threads about this topic - if you know of any, please send them my way (I will do a search in a bit).

I was thinking of going with a .300 win mag, but also considering a .300 RUM, as well as a 7mm rem mag. My main concerns are being able to shoot it accurately due to the recoil and that the bullet has enough energy to take down an elk at long range. What's the best way to do a recoil comparison, assuming that I can't find somebody with a similar gun? My gun will have a muzzle brake. What range would these calibers be effective to, assuming that I work to develop the skill to accurately get them to the target?

I also want something that isn't going to burn the barrel up too quick, although I don't really see myself putting 1000's of rounds through the gun each year.

I will reload, but probably don't want a cartridge that's too exotic.

Thanks! You guys have been a great help and I really appreciate you taking the time to help a beginner out!

 

[Broz]

With a 300 win and a 215 Berger, You will be hard pressed to do better inside the distances you will kill elk with a 30 cal. And yes I have killed numerous elk with all the calibers you mentioned above. Last count my 300 win was at 31 and zero for first round kills with the 215 Berger.

Counting the 2 last night we have taken 28 elk in the past 4 weeks with many calibers including the 7mm , 7 STW, 7-300 , 300 win and .338 Terminator.

My vote for you is the 300 win and get a good brake on it like a JP tactical compensator. For all the reasons and criteria you listed. Taking elk to 1000~1200+ yards is doable with proper skill set and good bullet placement.

Jeff

 

[TC338]

One caliber you didn't mention but I think would be a good choice is 338 win mag. I have a TC encore chambered in 338 win mag that has an integral brake on the barrel, just the holes drilled around it, and it recoils less than my 308 win. The barrel life of the 338 win should far surpass that of the 300 win mag. I was told I would be able to get around 5000+ rounds out of my rifle with no problem. I haven't gotten to chrono any of my loads yet but I'm expecting my 250 bergers to be going 2650-2700.

 

[drags]

Your lucky you live in Pa. we have some of the best gunsmiths in the country. Dave Bruno, Mark King, Bob Green just to name a few and the cost will be reasonable.
Drags

 

[treillw]

Your lucky you live in Pa. we have some of the best gunsmiths in the country. Dave Bruno, Mark King, Bob Green just to name a few and the cost will be reasonable.
Drags

I looked at their websites, as they were suggested previously. Most of their pictures show target/competition guns. I guess that shouldn't necessarily be a reason for turning me off, but it's nice to see some hunting rigs on the website.

 

[drags]

They make hunting rigs also. Being that they make competition rifles is a good thing because you can be assured that when they make a hunting rifle it will be top notch at a reasonable price. The gunsmiths I mentioned and others in Pa. would have no problem to make a very good hunting rifle and they might live close to you and you could go to there shop and talk to them FTF. Dave Bruno did a hunting rifle for me and Mark King did one for my brother and I know several people that have used Bob Green and everyone one has been satisfied. Another good one that I have experience with is Kelbly's in Ohio.
Drags

 

[MMERSS]

What range would these calibers be effective to,

Effective range is condition and uncertainty based. There are too many combinations to state a specific effective range for various calibers and conditions. If dropping the $'s for a high end rifle, spend the $'s on the Applied Ballistics Analytics package. Read the book and use the program. Ask if uncertain how to use WEZ to annotate maximum effective range on a range card. I now find WEZ the most time saving program to determine Max effective range. However, there are caveats to be aware of when using the program.

 

[treillw]

So I haven't pulled the trigger on a elk rifle purchase yet. I've just been taking some time to think about things and do a little more research. I still really like the Lane Precision Ultimate rifle.

Today I went out to the range with two guys from work who dabble in long range shooting. One guy had a Remington 700 .338 Lapua that he is getting tuned in a bit still. I'm amazed at how little the rifle recoiled. It's relatively heavy and I guess the brake really helps. It wasn't bad to shoot at all. My other buddy has a Savage 10 FCP-SR in .308 with a brake. Both guns have Vortex 5-20 ffp scopes (not sure of the exact model). I just wanted to test things out to get a better idea of what I want.

My first time ever touching the Savage, the first two shots were touching at 100 yards and then the third one was about an inch higher (probably my fault - I got too excited about how well it was shooting). Then we dialed in the scope and I shot two more shots at a 12" x 18" steel plate at 550 yards and they both connected. I'm actually surprised at how easy it was to hit. I thought it would have been much more challenging. This was my first time shooting over 100 yards, with the exception of one other time that shot 300.

Again, just a little on my background... I've loved shooting and hunting for ~20 years now, but never really shot over 100 yards and never shot a rifle that is really accurate. Hunting in the brush here in PA, long range shots don't really come up.

My question is, what is the difference between my buddy's $700 Savage that shoots pretty awesome and a custom rifle like the Lane Precision Ultimate? I'm willing to spend the money on a custom gun if it is a big advantage. After today, I feel pretty confident that I would be able to connect with targets at longer ranges. My goal is to practice to be comfortable shooting out to 1000 yards.

Thanks!