Long Range Elk Gun

[KillerBee]

Thanks for your input 6point!

I will not buy another mans gun! Mine will be brand new, fit to meet my exact specifications and unblemished, that way every scratch it has earned I know that it was earned my me.

It's amazing how much work goes into buying the perfect rifle to meet your needs eh? After reading the posts made by others nice people, I know that I am talking to the right folks and will eventually make the best decision.

Are you saying that you would select the 7mm Mag over the 7mm ultra mag and the STW? Thanks sir!

 

[ohiohunter]

Being as you do not reload I would build around what ammo is available. I haven't shopped off the shelf for some time but when I did the 7mm all had light bullets, much too light for a 1k elk kill. I think you may want to start looking into 30cals, at least there 180gr pills are quite the norm.

 

[6point5x284]

I'm sure some of the 7 fanatics can chime in here and help you out with input there. My personal preference is a 7 Rem Mag out of the 7's. I like the brass availability and cost of a 7 Rem Mag to operate over the others. I also like the recoil better than the RUM and STW. But there are pros to the others, I'm not denying that at all. Maybe a 7 guru can chime in. I have zero issues taking a long shot with a 7 Rem Mag shooting 180's or 168's however. I would still research Sendero's. You could probably get a Sendero in 7 Rem Mag, bed it, and shoot it with good results until you burnt up your first barrel. A Tikka, you'd be forced to swap barrels right away. My Tikka only gives me 2 shots before it is hot and POI shifts drastically. The big thing is research. When you think you are 100% set on your answer, sleep on it for a week, and then research again. If you come to the same conclusion, you probably know what you want and are ready to pull the trigger.

 

[KillerBee]

I'm sure some of the 7 fanatics can chime in here and help you out with input there. My personal preference is a 7 Rem Mag out of the 7's. I like the brass availability and cost of a 7 Rem Mag to operate over the others. I also like the recoil better than the RUM and STW. But there are pros to the others, I'm not denying that at all. Maybe a 7 guru can chime in. I have zero issues taking a long shot with a 7 Rem Mag shooting 180's or 168's however. I would still research Sendero's. You could probably get a Sendero in 7 Rem Mag, bed it, and shoot it with good results until you burnt up your first barrel. A Tikka, you'd be forced to swap barrels right away. My Tikka only gives me 2 shots before it is hot and POI shifts drastically. The big thing is research. When you think you are 100% set on your answer, sleep on it for a week, and then research again. If you come to the same conclusion, you probably know what you want and are ready to pull the trigger.

I hear you buddy!

Rushed into my last rifle, although it was A beautiful Browning 300 WSM A Bolt and killed everything I aimed at, it was not designed to shoot 1000 yards, but at 850 yards and in the animal should have said "The Lords Prayer" hehe

This new rifle will be exclusively for hunting Elk, Moose, WT and Mulies, so I only need one or two shots.

 

[KillerBee]

Being as you do not reload I would build around what ammo is available. I haven't shopped off the shelf for some time but when I did the 7mm all had light bullets, much too light for a 1k elk kill. I think you may want to start looking into 30cals, at least there 180gr pills are quite the norm.

Thanks ohiohunter. I am from Canada, so I know all too well about the lack of shell availability! Try finding 300 WMS Trophy Grade Accubonds here, dismal to say the least!

 

[Barrelnut]

Thanks for your input 6point!

I will not buy another mans gun! Mine will be brand new, fit to meet my exact specifications and unblemished, that way every scratch it has earned I know that it was earned my me.

Like you uncompromising attitude! I'm sure you will build a rifle that meets your needs.

I would reconsider handloads though. Problem with factory loads is they may not shoot the same from lot to lot. So what you buy one year might not shoot the same as what was bought last year. I'm not sure what component laws or shortages you Northern neighbors have, but usually, with handloads, you can get your components separately when you see them available. Maybe one month you find the brass and a month later you find the powder. Buy in quantity, enough for the life of the rifle, if possible, when you find them. That way you can guarantee that the ammo shoots the same from year to year.

 

[KillerBee]

Like you uncompromising attitude! I'm sure you will build a rifle that meets your needs.

I would reconsider handloads though. Problem with factory loads is they may not shoot the same from lot to lot. So what you buy one year might not shoot the same as what was bought last year. I'm not sure what component laws or shortages you Northern neighbors have, but usually, with handloads, you can get your components separately when you see them available. Maybe one month you find the brass and a month later you find the powder. Buy in quantity, enough for the life of the rifle, if possible, when you find them. That way you can guarantee that the ammo shoots the same from year to year.

Thank you Sir. As far as I am concerned I will compromise when I am 6' under and don't have any options hehe.

Lots of my friends reload. I used to, but the availability for powders etc. in this Country are severely limited. I believe the government here in Canada is fond of how Australia and Great Britain operate. Not me!

 

[seattleman1969]

Thanks for your input 6point!

I will not buy another mans gun! Mine will be brand new, fit to meet my exact specifications and unblemished, that way every scratch it has earned I know that it was earned my me.

It's amazing how much work goes into buying the perfect rifle to meet your needs eh? After reading the posts made by others nice people, I know that I am talking to the right folks and will eventually make the best decision.

Are you saying that you would select the 7mm Mag over the 7mm ultra mag and the STW? Thanks sir!

To start with, yes if all things are equal. Later down the road, with a REM 700 action at least, you can rebarrel or rechamber to 7 STW, 28 Nosler, etc without too much effort if you wish to go to one of the "super" 7s.

 

[MudRunner2005]

To start with, yes if all things are equal. Later down the road, with a REM 700 action at least, you can rebarrel or rechamber to 7 STW, 28 Nosler, etc without too much effort if you wish to go to one of the "super" 7s.

7mm STW would be a simple and easy re-chamber... The .28 Nosler or 7RUM...Not as simple.

The 7mm STW is based on the .300 H&H, same as the 7mm RemMag, .300 WinMag, etc... The .28 Nosler is based on the RUM cases (which are based off the .404 Jeffery case), which are non-belted, and larger in diameter.

That means that if the gunsmith is converting a standard magnum (.300 H&H-based) to a Nosler or RUM caliber, then you will have to open up the feed rails on the bottom of the action, and replace the magazine box and follower with a RUM mag box and follower.

Going from 7mm RemMag to .28 Nosler is not hard or super expensive, but it is not as simple as just a barrel swap or a re-chamber, like it would be if you were going from 7mm RemMag to 7mm STW.

 

[KillerBee]

This morning I was looking at the Nosler Trophy Grade bullet ballistics because I used them in my 300WSM and liked them a lot and was comparing the 7mm Remington Magnum vs. The 7mm STW and the 7mm RUM.

This is what I discovered and with the below ballistics information, isn't the RUM a better around choice, especially when it come to down range killing power?


7mm RM 140 Gr. @ Muzzle: Vel. 3200 - Eng. 3182 / 800 Y 1181 - 986

7mm RM 160 Gr. @ Muzzle: Vel. 2925 - Eng. 3039 / 800 Y 1687 - 1010


7mm STW 140 Gr. @ Muzzle: Vel. 3300 - Eng. 3384 / 800 Y 1713 -912

7mm STW 160 Gr. @ Muzzle: Vel. 3100 - Eng. 3200 / 800 Y. 1794 - 1143


7mm RUM 160 Gr. @ Muzzle: Vel. 3225 - Eng. 3694 / 800 Y. 1902 - 1286

 

[6point5x284]

Better killing power? Yes. But, it comes at a price. Expensive ammo whether you buy or reload, hard brass to find, hard ammo to find in a pinch, shorter barrel life, harsher recoil, and in my opinion you need a heavy and long barrel to take advantage of the extra powder capacity. I'm not knocking the RUM, it's a beast, and excels at sending 180's really far really fast. Just getting at if getting a RUM, do it right and take full advantage of the capability of the cartridge. That means handload, and have a long quality barrel. My .02

Those velocities are pretty weak from Nosler FYI. I'm getting almost 3100 fps with 168 Bergers from HSM factory ammo in a factory 24" barrel. That is par with the Nosler STW ammo you provided. The downfall to having to utilize factory ammo is just that. I handload for everything except when I don't have time to perfect my load for the season as in my current case.

 

[seattleman1969]

Going from 7mm RemMag to .28 Nosler is not hard or super expensive, but it is not as simple as just a barrel swap or a re-chamber, like it would be if you were going from 7mm RemMag to 7mm STW.

Hence the statement "without too much effort"... Sometimes half the fun is the thrill of discovery through a project! Some people see difficulty, I prefer to think of things as opportunity.

 

[KillerBee]

Better killing power? Yes. But, it comes at a price. Expensive ammo whether you buy or reload, hard brass to find, hard ammo to find in a pinch, shorter barrel life, harsher recoil, and in my opinion you need a heavy and long barrel to take advantage of the extra powder capacity. I'm not knocking the RUM, it's a beast, and excels at sending 180's really far really fast. Just getting at if getting a RUM, do it right and take full advantage of the capability of the cartridge. That means handload, and have a long quality barrel. My .02

Those velocities are pretty weak from Nosler FYI. I'm getting almost 3100 fps with 168 Bergers from HSM factory ammo in a factory 24" barrel. That is par with the Nosler STW ammo you provided. The downfall to having to utilize factory ammo is just that. I handload for everything except when I don't have time to perfect my load for the season as in my current case.

Well 6point I was reading a thread that you participated on here, I believe you said that you are a friend have killed over 40 elk with a 7mm Rem, with the longest shot being 800 yards. You must live in Colorado? That's AWESOME and I am jealous hehe.

FYI: I only use factory loads because I do not shoot very much. I have been hunting for many years, I am a very good shot and all I do before every season is I go to a field, put up 10" plates at 200 and 500 yards and shoot about 20 shots then I go hunting.

About the Berger bullets. I have never used them but my friend swears by them and uses them on elk with his .338 (he hand loads). I watched the ballistic gel video on their site, VERY IMPRESSIVE!

If you were me, which of the 7mm's would you buy?

Thank you for your time and insight Sir!

 

[IdahoCTD]

Going from 7mm RemMag to .28 Nosler is not hard or super expensive, but it is not as simple as just a barrel swap or a re-chamber, like it would be if you were going from 7mm RemMag to 7mm STW.

The down side to going with a 7STW is you really need a extended magazine as well to get to it's performance potential. A 7-300wm stays right with a 7STW in a factory length mag box because the bullet is seated so deep in the STW. 2.85" length cases are all that way unless your shooting really light bullets. I've owned a couple 7STW's since the early 90's as well as about every other caliber on a 300/375 H&H length case from 7STW to 458 Lott. The magazine length had always been a issue until Wyatt mag boxes became available. For years I shot my 30-8mm with one round in the magazine because it was too long. The one round would sit in the feed ramp allowing for extra length

If a person started with a Ultra mag action a 28 Nosler would be a easy build but modifying a Remington action is pretty easy when going from a standard magnum to a Ultra mag. I just modified a standard (ie 308win) short action to a 6.5saum. That is a good deal of work when you add a Wyatt box too. It still only took about an hour and a half to do it all. It was easier for me because I had a Ultra mag long action to take measurements from. I still had to modify and polish the feed ramp and rails to get it to function correctly though. BTW a standard magnum is only .027" narrower, .0135" per side, than a Ultra mag. That is a pretty easy machine job and then you just need a Ultra mag magazine box. Also a standard magnum functions fine through a Ultra mag action. I've done it tons of times.