Long Range Elk Gun Advise

[chucknbach]

Might be possible he's looking for a more than his .308 and wants the "capability" of 1500.

I know I could ask a similar question. Been short on cash before and only want to buy once. Maybe my capability's weren't there but wanted to be able to grow into it.

"musta bumped my scope'' Been there done that. Should have given them a chance. They might have been telling the truth.

 

[buster1250]

Let me play a little defense for a moment. First, I understand the importance of being capable before taking a shot on any live target, from any distance. Second, I wasn't trying to come across as another wanna be trying to give the long range hunting community a bad name. Third, I understand the concerns that most have posted "against" my original post.

A little back ground info. I have a .308 that shoots really well. I have taken several deer beyond 600 yards, and my longest kill to date was my elk last season @ 847 yards. I admit a bit of a stretch my little .308, but the conditions were near perfect. Yes, I do know that the 168gr Nosler Silver Balistictip was still going just over 1400fps, w/ close to 735 ft/lbs of energy, and took aprox 1.28 seconds to get to the elk. However, It took a lot of trips to the desert, and hundreds of dollars to develop the load to make it possible. Well worth though!

My original post should have said. I would like to make the jump to the next level, and have the equipment necessary to make a 1500+ shot on an elk. (I don't plan to do so until i feel that I am capable) Problem is I can't afford the $5-8k custom rigs. Also, while handloading is usually the best option. It can get very expensive developing a load, and in some cases there are "factory" loads that are really good to start with. As was the case in the article "The One Mile Prairie Dog" where the Black Hills ammo was as good or better than his hand loads. Why reinvent the wheel? So, if you were looking to upgrade, on a limited budget, would the Savage be worth the money? Will it last? Or, would it be better to save up for a while longer and buy the custom gun?

 

[Mike 338]

I am not saying that he should go ahead and shoot an elk at 1500 with factory ammo, he asked for a review of the savage so i gave him mine.

So you did. Good thread and very nice shooting.

 

[angus-5024]

buster 1250,
Its good to see that you know your .308. The Ballistic Tips are a good bullet for low velocity expansion. I was not tyring to be a jerk, although I re-read my post and I certainly may have come across as one. For that Im sorry.

I dont think that any factory gun is going to be a good bet to get you out to 1500 yards. It may, but it will be a roll of the dice. I think that the 110's are a great platform for around the 1200 yards mark if they shoot well. or an absolute hammer under 1k. I would lean more towards an accumark in .338-.378, then you have a premium aciton to use if you need to re-barrel for accuracy sakes. If I were to buy a savage it would be the 110 BA (for ELR).

Chucknback,
I've bumped my scope before too.
I went shooting with these guys repeatedly and it was always the same, with different rifles. Even with my rifles.

I did however come across a guy that was a new huntiner and willing to learn. We shot at 680 yards the other weekend and he was holding MOA with his rifle and handloads.

 

[shooterpunk2]

The savage is an excellent platform to use. I would find a cheap one ad re-barrel it to 338 edge or similar and get the stock of your choice.

Even with the larger 338's like the edge, rum, and lapua, 1500 yards is pushing it. Honestly if that's your goal I'd say step up to something bigger like the Allen magnums. But that's just my opinion.

 

[bigngreen]

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f25/custom-338-rum-96323/ A good way to get up and running fast is a good rifle from the classifieds, they are usually well built and come with load data, just add scope and bipod.

 

[trebark]

Let me play a little defense for a moment. First, I understand the importance of being capable before taking a shot on any live target, from any distance. Second, I wasn't trying to come across as another wanna be trying to give the long range hunting community a bad name. Third, I understand the concerns that most have posted "against" my original post.

A little back ground info. I have a .308 that shoots really well. I have taken several deer beyond 600 yards, and my longest kill to date was my elk last season @ 847 yards. I admit a bit of a stretch my little .308, but the conditions were near perfect. Yes, I do know that the 168gr Nosler Silver Balistictip was still going just over 1400fps, w/ close to 735 ft/lbs of energy, and took aprox 1.28 seconds to get to the elk. However, It took a lot of trips to the desert, and hundreds of dollars to develop the load to make it possible. Well worth though!

My original post should have said. I would like to make the jump to the next level, and have the equipment necessary to make a 1500+ shot on an elk. (I don't plan to do so until i feel that I am capable) Problem is I can't afford the $5-8k custom rigs. Also, while handloading is usually the best option. It can get very expensive developing a load, and in some cases there are "factory" loads that are really good to start with. As was the case in the article "The One Mile Prairie Dog" where the Black Hills ammo was as good or better than his hand loads. Why reinvent the wheel? So, if you were looking to upgrade, on a limited budget, would the Savage be worth the money? Will it last? Or, would it be better to save up for a while longer and buy the custom gun?

Alright, now we're talking. Thank you for the background info.

As for advice, I agree with another post that a factory rifle will probably not be 1500 yard capable. It will require some customization (read: custom barrel).

Also agree with another post that to be 1500 yard capable, you need to think BIG. 338allen mag big.

 

[Broz]

Thanks for the added info. Here is my view of the 338 LM at 1500 yard hunting. With a 28" tube and muzzle velocity of 2800 or so with a 300 gr bullet the 1500 mark is kind of a place where the numbers come together.

1500 yards, impact velocity of close to 1500 fps and energy matching close to 1500 lbs. Will this do the trick? you bet. But I worry about the capabilities of the factory rifle and I sure would rather have hand loads with 300 gr bullets. I myself would only use a 300 gr Berger here. Not all rifles are created equal. That goes for factory or customs. I feel you will need a combination (rifle, ammo, shooter skill) that will repeatedly hold 1/2 moa past 1000 yards to effectively take on this feat. If a factory combo will do this then I say you have a darn good one.

Also, lets not forget the very important element of a correct and spot on range of the intended target. The number of rangefinders I would use for this is limited. And for sure they are not cheap. I would look at the size of the beam that the intended unit has at 1500 yards before I trusted it. Many units will be casting a 9 foot plus beam. That makes a mis range very easy and a 10 or 15 yard mis-range of on a closer more reflective target will be a huge problem for a cold bore hit where you want it.

I won't go into what it will take for a good scope, but I sure would be looking for at least 22X and plenty of elevation as 50 moa up could be needed.

So, with a drop in velocity of the 26" tube, loss of energy of a 250gr bullet over a 300 gr bullet and loss of BC added with the chances of a factory combination probably not holding 1/2 moa at these distances, I think you are up against a challenge with the equipment you listed. Now 1000 or 1200 in good conditions are looking a lot better.

You asked about barrel life. My 338 LM is still holding 1/2 moa after close to 1500 rounds. So that is not an issue with either the 338 EDGE or the 338LM. But as you step it up to larger cases plan on the number of rounds before rebarrel beeing less as velocity goes up. I used my 338 LM to train and hunt for years and now I am stepping up with a new chambering and rifle design so I will be more prepared for a shot like this. If and when the stars align and conditions are there. So I feel the EDGE or LM are a great choice to get you ready. Then once you know what it takes and feel you are there would be the time to step up to a larger case as you will not be beating up the barrel for all the practice.

Hope this help to answer your questions.
Jeff

 

[chucknbach]

Chucknback,
I've bumped my scope before too.
I went shooting with these guys repeatedly and it was always the same, with different rifles. Even with my rifles.

Was fresh in my mind cuz' I did it last weekend (not scope but turrents). On top of that I grabbed the wrong dope sheet. My brother and I had been talking smack about who was going to kill the most prairie dogs. Neither one of us could hit anything. My 12 yr old son did all the killing, took him out cat fishing that night and he caught all the fish as well. He's been informed he's not allowed to go with us anymore.

Glad to hear you gave them a second chance. If there not hitting on time 2 let the shame begin. The more smack talk the better. This will help as either there won't be a 3rd time or there will be a vast improvement in their shooting the next time.

 

[chucknbach]

Buster, I'd stick with the .308 this year. Better decisions are made when not under the gun. Your already proven and comfortable on your current rifle. No sense in rushing yourself.

 

[barnesuser28]

There is a Savage 110 FCP HS 338 Lapua in the classified section with 80 rounds down the tube. Seller is Tikkamike

 

[pwrdbycotn]

Buster, I'd stick with the .308 this year. Better decisions are made when not under the gun. Your already proven and comfortable on your current rifle. No sense in rushing yourself.

This is the decision I made. I have been shooting a 300 RUM for 3 years now getting comfortable at longer ranges and better in my reloading. I've spent a great deal of time and money on becoming competent at longer ranges. Now that I can hit 1k very reliably I am building a 338 lapua improved. I'm mainly building this rifle for a bear hunt that I plan on going on in a few years. Yes, I said years! I only get to shoot a lot during the winter so, for me, it will take a few years for me to become comfortable with the gun and load. I plan on taking this gun to 2000 yards and I know it won't happen right away. I haven't been at this nearly as long as these other guys, but I, too, would suggest waiting. Save up and buy/build exactly what you want with the optics (rifle scope, binoculars, rangefinder) that you want. I have been saving for my 338 for a year and a half and still don't have a scope bought yet and I will keep saving for a vectronix terrapin. A lot of people don't think of things like a $2000 rangefinder that will reliably range to 1500 yards. Do what you want, but if I were you I would wait until next year when you won't have to rush.

 

[winmag]

There is a Savage 110 FCP HS 338 Lapua in the classified section with 80 rounds down the tube. Seller is Tikkamike

I'm simply following this thread, & have nothing usefull to contribute.

But as for Mike, he's is a strait shooter. I've done business with him on more than one occasion. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

 

[trebark]

I'm simply following this thread, & have nothing usefull to contribute.

But as for Mike, he's is a strait shooter. I've done business with him on more than one occasion. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

Nothing to contribute??? holy crap! somebody check to see if the world has stopped turning!