Long range bullets that will penetrate up close without blowing up.

[PredatorSlayer]

There seems to be two classes of bullets and if I am incorrect here then I am sure someone will correct me. There are those bullets that will as a rule fragment and blow up at speed but as they slow down 25 or 2400 fps the will penetrate and expand as normal. or those that will expand as normal at speed 31 to 3300 fps and at distance will not do much expanding at 700 plus yards. Would it be impossible for some one like Nosler to take a Partition and add a boat-tail design and an ELDX type heat shield type tip on it . Jack Carter was getting close. Think it would work at up close ranges and also open up at long range?

There are some good options out there that already exist. This shows bullets performance at both long and short range:

Field Test: Five Big-Game Bullets

We put five big-game bullets to the ultimate test

www.fieldandstream.com

 

[mmacfive]

"The people that take those really long shots at game do so because they are confident that they can make the shot. They aren't thinking I might be able to hit, they know they can. They practice alot and are very good at it, so let them do their thing, and congrats to them for their incredible shooting abilities.
TJ"


I only wish that was always true.

 

[Santiam338]

I just picked up some 140 Gold Dots for my 260ai to try this very thing..Near and far..

Took four shots to keep my bear down last year with 147's at about 175 yds and it is something I have been thinking about for a while.. They say .571 bc and I can live with that if true.. Will check that and expansion out to about 600 ,which is about as far as I will shoot at live animals.. Keep the 147's for rock busting out to a thousand.

 

[Kingfish01]

I can give my limited experience. 308, 168 gr Nosler LRAB :
1st: medium buck at about 60 yds, enter through front left chest, exit through right rib cage. Exit hole big enough to drop a baseball into. Deer fell over instantly, dead
after this incident, I decided to switch ammo, but we went hunting before the new ammo arrived so I continued hunting with this same ammo
2nd: large doe at about 7 yds. Downward shot, from stand, In through right chest, out through left chest Ran about 40 yds. Exit hole was about the size of a quarter
3rd: med-large buck, about 80 yds. In behind left shoulder, out the other side, quarter sized exit

in conclusion, the first seemed like a fluke or maybe a heavy bone was hit initially, but I couldn't find much damage other than the giant exit hole. The 7 yard shot held together fine as did the 80 yd shot. So I'll keep using this ammo
another ammo I'd like to try is the Federal terminal ascent. It's 175 gr for the 308 and 30-06. Maybe next season I'll take that with me

edited to add, previous year I took 2 deer with the Hornady SST, I think it was 16ish grain, I don't remember exactly. Both shots fragmented like grenades without hitting heavy bone. I managed to recover one bullet and it was nothing but a chunk of mangled copper jacket. No lead at all. I feel if I'd hit a shoulder, penetration might have been a problem. I switched to the above Nosler LRAB, which are also very accurate

below photo is baseball sized hole from the LRAB, and the other is the recovered SST, last is the doe shot at 7 yds, exit hole shown

 

[6MM06AI]

"The people that take those really long shots at game do so because they are confident that they can make the shot. They aren't thinking I might be able to hit, they know they can. They practice alot and are very good at it, so let them do their thing, and congrats to them for their incredible shooting abilities.
TJ"


I only wish that was always true.

Point Taken! Yes, some of them shouldn't be shooting long range at animals but do anyhow!

 

[bigngreen]

Point Taken! Yes, some of them shouldn't be shooting long range at animals but do anyhow!

I've found those are the guys who shouldn't be shooting at animals period regardless of range, at least with long range they stand a much better chance of a clean miss vs when they were shooting just as poorly closer.

 

[Westernhuntr]

I've found those are the guys who shouldn't be shooting at animals period regardless of range, at least with long range they stand a much better chance of a clean miss vs when they were shooting just as poorly closer.

Interesting take
I believe the point he's trying to make is that there is a lot that goes into shooting an animal at long range, and a person should know their limitations and when conditions are not conducive to taking certain shots.
Anyone can make a shot at close range, many can make shots at long range, fewer have the ability to shoot within their limits.

 

[snowypeakoutdoors]

As suggested earlier there is give and take with the different bullet constructions. One of the anomalies we have experienced with monolithic Bullets is their failure to expand in close, especially in the smaller calibers. Contrary to my earlier described scenario of the whitetail being tumbled by the 7mm ABLR at close range we have witnessed monolithic Bullets zip through game at close range with them acting at times like they haven't even been hit, or run, stop, start grazing again then start wobbling or even run for the hills, all eventually dying with exit holes no bigger than the entry hole.

As to ABLR's not being as accurate as other types of bullet the rifle described earlier shot the attached group and shot a sub 3" group at a 1,000 yards...View attachment 176890

Pretty sure that is backwards. Monolithic bullets are more likely to expand at high velocities and close range, less likely to expand at lower velocities, just like everything else. They do not ignore the laws of physics. Those bullets that didn't expand at close range most certainly would not have expanded at long range given the same impact location and lack of hitting solid internals like bone.

 

[HARPERC]

....Monolithic bullets are more likely to expand at high velocities and close range, less likely to expand at lower velocities, just like everything else. They do not ignore the laws of physics. Those bullets that didn't expand at close range most certainly would not have expanded at long range.........

One can't ignore physics for sure, but one can't assume all cup and core bullets, or all mono's have the same data to plug in. Differences like bullet material, and hollow point size have to be taken into account.

 

[dfanonymous]

My brother in-law shot a blacktail/mule deer hybrid thing at about 30 yards he said. He messaged me about it said it ran away and he tracked it almost a mile away on to some private property, and wanted to know if he could go onto the property to go look for it. I sent him the regulation highlighting that he couldn't without written permission, and he needed to talk to some LLC outside of the state that owned the land. He shot it with some mono in .308, I don't remember the brand, probably a federal bullet.

Point of the story, some people are just dumb, regardless of the distance of the animal, and monos are not always better. Egos, inability to handle pressure and think clearly about what they are doing, understanding their weapon and ammo, etc all play a factory, always.

 

[mmacfive]

My brother in-law shot a blacktail/mule deer hybrid thing at about 30 yards he said. He messaged me about it said it ran away and he tracked it almost a mile away on to some private property, and wanted to know if he could go onto the property to go look for it. I sent him the regulation highlighting that he couldn't without written permission, and he needed to talk to some LLC outside of the state that owned the land. He shot it with some mono in .308, I don't remember the brand, probably a federal bullet.

Point of the story, some people are just dumb, regardless of the distance of the animal, and monos are not always better. Egos, inability to handle pressure and think clearly about what they are doing, understanding their weapon and ammo, etc all play a factory, always.

I guess I'm missing the point of the story. What I read is your brother on-law made a bad shot and he is blaming the bullet?

 

[snowypeakoutdoors]

One can't ignore physics for sure, but one can't assume all cup and core bullets, or all mono's have the same data to plug in. Differences like bullet material, and hollow point size have to be taken into account.

They absolutely behave differently. To say otherwise would once again, be ignoring physics. The implication in the post I quoted was that because the range was close, and the velocity was high, the bullet didn't expand. It didn't expand because of the characteristics of that bullet, just as you stated, not because the velocity was higher.

 

[sp6x6]

In the early years of mono,there where many accounts of penciling.I know alot that gave up on them then.There has been alot of change since then,Barnes the original I'd say been around a long time.

 

[dfanonymous]

I guess I'm missing the point of the story. What I read is your brother on-law made a bad shot and he is blaming the bullet?

Idk if it was a bad shot. I wasn't there.

The point was it doesn't take a long range shot to wound an animal. It can happen at all ranges and the bullet being a mono wasn't a magical fix to the situation. How you LIKE to read it is it was bad shot and it wasn't the bullet. That is up to you. Either way, I drove up sometime a few days later when I was off and went looking around the area, he showed me the area and we found the bullet in a big *** tree trunk. I couldn't imagine it expanded in the animal and still penetrate into a tree like that.