Long range bullets at close range

[bigngreen]

So in AB I can input a zero range, zero hight and zero off set for each bullet based of point off aim vs point of impact. I zero both optically and in the software for the close bullet so it's point and shoot or dial straight up. The long rang bullet is 100% dial so it doesn't really matter where you start from just where you end up.

 

[Huntsman66]

It's interesting to me to read about so many bullet failures. I've been hunting for 50yrs and haven't had a single failure. Shot critters all over the US and Canada and never experienced a bullet failure. I originally shot Sierra boattail hunting bullets. They often shed their cores but they killed reliably. Switched to Barnes X bullets for a while and was a bit disappointed by how some animals didn't even look like they were hit despite good shot placement, but they were all dead in short order. Long before there was a controversy about "target" vs "hunting" bullets I got hooked on using A-Max bullets for whitetails. An incredibly accurate bullet that occasionally exited but sometimes not. All the deer died quickly, regardless. I shot an antelope at 440yds with a 162 A-Max. Bullet impacted behind the shoulder but the seperated jacket took a right turn and zipped his abdomen open causing his entrails to fall out before he dropped. Moved on to Bergers before they differentiated between target and hunting bullets. Got reliable kills with few exits. Accubonds were my mainstay for some time, and I still use them. They killed deer-elk-moose with equal authority, and I could never understand why some called them "Accubombs".

Lately, I've been using Hammer bullets. While they may solve some of the problems that other shooters have experienced; I use them because they just shoot well and reliably kill critters. I've had a few DRT while others ran a bit with devastating injuries, but the bullets didn't fail to do what they were meant to do.

While I've seen bullets do some wonky things in animals, I can't say that I've ever had one FAIL. Maybe I'm just lucky.

Im with Varmint, I've hunted for 50 years and killed a pile of animals, with a pile of different bullets. I can't remember ever loosing an animal with any of them (some worked better than others), other than the ones that I outright missed. Some bullets that were supposed to be the savior, performed poorly and others that were supposedly not meant for shooting animals acted like sledgehammers ….. but there is one bullet that I never have had a bad experience with, the 180gn Nosler Partition. I don't shoot it much anymore, not because it doesn't perform, but because there are more accurate bullets on the market now. Anyway pick what you like and have fun hunting, make good shots and I would imagine any of todays quality products will produce good results…. Today I am using ELDX, ELDM and Hammers (upcoming) happy with all.

Merry Christmas!

 

[adam32+P]

In the 6.5 I just find the 140 vld to be solid all around I don't require any other bullet for myself, the 156 didn't blow my skirt up honestly, nothing bad just didn't blow my skirt up.

If nothing else comes from this thread, at least now all of our suspicions are confirmed... @bigngreen does in fact, wear a skirt.

 

[WYO300RUM]

While not a popular system by many on this forum……use a mono, Barnes LRX, or something similar, and limit your long range shots to the maximum range for effective expansion.

This makes you "good to go" from muzzle to a ways out yonder! memtb

 

[WYO300RUM]

I've killed

I've been using them since the early '90's…….haven't experienced that yet….nor has my wife. I can't and won't say that it will not happen.

I have far more faith in mono's (not all mono's) than any cup and core @ very close range on a large big game animal where there is a chance of hitting heavy bone, and requiring penetration measured in feet not inches! memtb

I've killed around 10 elk and a pile of deer and lope and one bighorn with Barnes and Hammers. On elk I aim shoulder. Boom. Down they go. Very little meat damage and saves the heart for me. I've used Bergers (not on elk ) except one cow with a 168 in 7 mag. Zipped right thru here at 125 yds. Took out lungs. Dropped right there. Haved used ELDX, Hornady Interbond, Nosler Accubond, partitions, etc. All killed. All other elk have been 300 RUM and 300 win mag. Barnes 180 TSX or TTSX. I shot 2 bulls in Colorado early 90's with Barnes x with 7 mag. Forgot. They both dropped. I really liked the 180 TTSX in 300's. Lately the 180 Hammer Hunter has been getting it done for me. This year a nice Muley buck, a cow elk and a Whitetail buck. All with 300 win mag and 180 Hammer hunters . Only the cow was a shoulder shot. All DRT.

 

[Stang66]

I've done some searching but haven't found what I thought was the answer. So…

If you are set up with a long range bullet, (let's just say a Berger EOL) and a shot presents itself at a close range. How do you handle that shot?

I've read a couple things; aim for bone or have a mono bullet built that aims close.

I'd like to have your thoughts.

I recently harvested a doe with the Winchester Deer season 123gn in 6.5CM at 110 yards. It was quartered away. Broke one rib on entry severed the heart, took out both lungs, broke two ribs on exit then clipped the leg. Inside terminal damage was unbelievable.

 

[bigngreen]

I'm much more careful about NOT hitting the shoulder close with a bonded bullet than I am with many others, number one way we see to wound an elk in these cull hunts is a bullet in the shoulder that doesn't get through, the highest percentage offenders are Accubonds and Barnes.
A heavy bullet that sheds weight and stays small will get through the front shoulder at a very high percentage vs a bullet with a big flat mushroom up front!

 

[Muddyboots]

So what I read is we need a fail safe , Partitioned , bonded , soft point, hollow point , plastic tipped , aluminum tipped , mono , solid , fast, performs low velocity , performs high velocity , stable in all twists, CHEAP , sounds good to me.

 

[bigngreen]

Reality is you can kill game well with just about anything if you chose your shot wisely. I've found myself holding a 22-250 loaded with 45 gr VMAX trying to kill coyote only to find myself in elk, still came home with elk!!

 

[Lucasraymond]

I find an open tip type bullet will perform similar at close ranges as say mid range but slightly more aggressive in the middle of terminal performance but the initiation is very similar till you start getting to the lower end.
A tipped bullet I see a close range impact really being more violent at the start and I have to be much more careful about shot placement with the tipped bullets.
A good example would be a 140 Berger vld vs the 143 Eldx, a close hit I will still put the vld into a situation that will require some bone crushing and penetration, the Eldx I will 100% wait for a shot that is going through just ribs in a closer situation.
I have certain bullets for long range that I am really careful with up close or I have a Hammer bullet that's provides me that closer alternative, I will run a two bullet solution, other bullets I will just send them when I want to. You can use any bullet you just have to be very aware of it's real world function and adjust you shot accordingly.
I have not found a cross over bullet that is marketed as an all range bullet to work well, the Eldx and the LR Accubonds are good examples of bullet that appear they may cross over but in my experience really are just a mid range bullet with stretched marketing.

No experience with them but the Terminal Ascents seem like they would be on the tougher end of an all around bullet.

 

[Lucasraymond]

I see a lot people mentioning Hammer and Barnes; any info on Badlands Bulldozer 2 or PVA Cayuga. According to the owner of PVA the goal of his bullets are to J hook and then tumble through the animal.

 

[WYO300RUM]

I'm much more careful about NOT hitting the shoulder close with a bonded bullet than I am with many others, number one way we see to wound an elk in these cull hunts is a bullet in the shoulder that doesn't get through, the highest percentage offenders are Accubonds and Barnes.
A heavy bullet that sheds weight and stays small will get through the front shoulder at a very high percentage vs a bullet with a big flat mushroom up front!

I've shot elk in shoulder up to 543 yds. with Barnes TTSX in my 300 RUM and have never had one not penetrate into chest or blow right through. I've never had an elk take more than a couple steps. They can't very well with a busted shoulder. I've been using my 300 win mag lately because I had a brain fart or senior moment and put a 28 in. Bartlien Varmint contour 5R barrel on my 300 RUM. It's no longer my go to mountain rifle. HEAVY. I do have a great load for it with a 215 Berger and a CDS turret set up for it. I have total confidence with it out to 600 yds. It has to be the right set up for me to use on elk. One day I will. I'll be holding in crease I took it with me on Az. elk hunt but ended up using my 300. win mag. Ive killed some buck and doe deer and some doe lope with 156 Berger in my 6.5 PRC. A great bullet. I'm sure the 215 will be also and If I do hit shoulder out to 500 yds I'm sure it will punch through the thin shoulder blade and do its job. 215 Berger at 3230 fps should penetrate shoulder . 180 Barnes TTSX AT 3360 did its job and then some.

 

[mnoland30]

There have been a couple of mentions of heavy bullets, but no discussion of sectional density. I believe that a high sectional density makes up for a lot of potential bullet weaknesses. I got a real education in this with muzzleloaders shooting .45 caliber pure lead bullets. To get a sectional density close to .280 (which is where I want to be for elk) takes a 405 gr. bullet. Most muzzleloader bullets are 250 to 300 gr. A 400 gr. pure lead bullet on the point of the shoulder, cracked the ball joint, and split in two. The cow ran 75 yards. Luckly for me, half went into the lungs and the other half into the neck. Once I started using a heavy jacketed .45-70 bullets, elk started dropping in their tracks.

I believe it takes a special bullet to perform well at over 3000 ft./sec. impact velocity. Most bullets are not designed to handle that. I just ordered some Eld-M and Eld-X bullets on the theory that the X would work on the closer shots and the M would be better for long range. My experience is that you have time on the long shots, so switching bullets isn't a big deal. For years I've used the 7mm 168 Bergers at 2850 on everything from javelina to elk. No issues, but their price has gone up with their popularity.

I started using Barnes bullets back in the '90's because my butcher put recovered bullets in a pan on the counter. All of the Barnes bullets looked just like the advertisements. I killed 4 aoudad with 120 gr. TTSX at 2400 frps from a 7-30 Waters.

The bottom line is you have to select the right bullet for the velocity. For javelina from a 10" Contender pistol in 7mm TCU, a regular bullet wouldn't expand. A varmit bullet does.

 

[WYO300RUM]

There have been a couple of mentions of heavy bullets, but no discussion of sectional density. I believe that a high sectional density makes up for a lot of potential bullet weaknesses. I got a real education in this with muzzleloaders shooting .45 caliber pure lead bullets. To get a sectional density close to .280 (which is where I want to be for elk) takes a 405 gr. bullet. Most muzzleloader bullets are 250 to 300 gr. A 400 gr. pure lead bullet on the point of the shoulder, cracked the ball joint, and split in two. The cow ran 75 yards. Luckly for me, half went into the lungs and the other half into the neck. Once I started using a heavy jacketed .45-70 bullets, elk started dropping in their tracks.

I believe it takes a special bullet to perform well at over 3000 ft./sec. impact velocity. Most bullets are not designed to handle that. I just ordered some Eld-M and Eld-X bullets on the theory that the X would work on the closer shots and the M would be better for long range. My experience is that you have time on the long shots, so switching bullets isn't a big deal. For years I've used the 7mm 168 Bergers at 2850 on everything from javelina to elk. No issues, but their price has gone up with their popularity.

I started using Barnes bullets back in the '90's because my butcher put recovered bullets in a pan on the counter. All of the Barnes bullets looked just like the advertisements. I killed 4 aoudad with 120 gr. TTSX at 2400 frps from a 7-30 Waters.

The bottom line is you have to select the right bullet for the velocity. For javelina from a 10" Contender pistol in 7mm TCU, a regular bullet wouldn't expand. A varmit bullet does.