Long Action vs Short Action.

[XSIVSPD]

I didn't read all 8 pages so far and I'm sure this has been mentioned but there isn't technically a "long action". You have standard length and short.

Not exactly.

308 = short action ~3.0 inch COAL

30-06/300 winmag = standard (or long if you don't want to get into semantics) action ~3.4 inch COAL

300rum/375 h&h = long action (or magnum length action) 3.6+ inch COAL

You could even add mini actions on there for a 223 length action.

What point were you trying to make by 'correcting' everyone here?

#ConfidentlyIncorrect

 

[nralifer]

Really doesn't need saying but it depends on the cartridge. I went with LA for .244 Rem to begin with. Subsequently came in handy with the 110 SMK. I got a lot of those bullets from .243 Win folks. The logic being the .244 has a little more capacity but more important a longer neck.

The name .244 Rem is referring to the same cartridge as the 6mm Rem I take it. Always thought it was superior to th 243 Win case.

 

[DUCKMAN11]

Not exactly.

308 = short action ~3.0 inch COAL

30-06/300 winmag = standard (or long if you don't want to get into semantics) action ~3.4 inch COAL

300rum/375 h&h = long action (or magnum length action) 3.6+ inch COAL

You could even add mini actions on there for a 223 length action.

What point were you trying to make by 'correcting' everyone here?

#ConfidentlyIncorrect

You are 100% correct

 

[Culpeper]

The name .244 Rem is referring to the same cartridge as the 6mm Rem I take it. Always thought it was superior to th 243 Win case.

Correct. I use the .244 Rem original name so as not to confuse with the 6mm BR Rem.

 

[Chris Montana]

I like being able to get my fingers into the magazine to load and unload, clear jams in the dark and cold with frozen fingers. Short actions are a pain in the you-know-where, in my opinion.

 

[nralifer]

I thought I would chime in and say that I bought a Defiance XM action, which I understand is a medium length action, and found an M5 bottom metal that fits it at Bugholes....and here I am months later and cant find a stock that will accommodate those components. I am new on this forum, so surely didnt want to highjack the thread by any means, but thought it might be an opportunity to get your guys' thoughts or comments on where a stock could be found. Thank you gentlemen, and if I am out of line please say so and I will back out.

Thank you

I would call Defiance and get their perspective. They should know what stocks fit their actions well.

 

[duckklr]

Remington 700 BDL .308 WIN. "short/medium" length magazine-well measured an approximate 2.88 " O.A.L.
REMINGTON 700 BDL 8MM/06 (rebored and rechambered from .270 win) "long" mag-well measured approximately 3.71" O.A.L.

Longest rounds I shoot out of Rem 700 chambers are the .375 H&H Mag. and the 8mm Remington Mag. (Also shoot the .458 Win Mag out of a Rem 700 BDL LA but it is a shorter round.)

 

[Rocketeer77]

Wanted to express my views on action length. With the advent of shorter fatter relatively high capacity cartridges, I am observing that they are actually better suited to longer actions, say 30-06 length actions than shorter ones. Such cartridges include the WSMs, Shermans, the PRCs, etc. The reason I think they are better suited to the longer action is that the longer action and magazine will better accommodate the very high BC bullets now available, since the bullet can be seated further out in the case and increase the usable powder capacity, providing greater optimization of the bullet jump as well. Limiting powder space and jump control simply degrades the potential of the short fat cases, which arguably are more efficient than longer cases with narrow powder columns. Case in point is my 300WSM. I have that rifle in a long action Savage, it feeds well and I can shoot our 175 gr BD2 bullet 3200 fps and the 195 gr BD2 at 2995 fps. From a short action that would be difficult to do if not dangerous with those bullets loaded to magazine length. Finding the same thing using a 6.5PRC. Would like to get some rational discussion about this subject from the obviously experienced reloaders on this site.

I have a Tikka 6.5 PRC they use the long action (as they do with everything) and you can get around 60gr of powder in the case without any issues. We just had a 6mm Credmoor built on an older Sako short action and everything fits nicely that's using 115gr projectiles. Horses for courses I guess?

 

[nralifer]

I have a Tikka 6.5 PRC they use the long action (as they do with everything) and you can get around 60gr of powder in the case without any issues. We just had a 6mm Credmoor built on an older Sako short action and everything fits nicely that's using 115gr projectiles. Horses for courses I guess?
View attachment 421619

Clearly a 3006 length action is what I refer to as a "long" action and all the newer short mags like the 6.5 PRC, the Shermans, 6.8 Western, all the WSMs and even the 308 Win and possibly the 260 Rem and 7mm08 benefit from a long action because of the long ogived high BC bullets available. It's not like I don't have short action rifles, because in having them I have come to realize how they limit the cartridges that are marketed for them. As far as the 6 mm Creed, its a nice cartridge but the good old 243Win and 244Rem out do it. As I have posted before, modern SRP brass and temp stable ball powders, and high BC lathe turned copper bullets used in the .308 and .243, especially the latter, really unlock performance from these "old" favorites beyond what the designers hoped for.

 

[Turpentine21]

So far I have 65 rounds on the new 308 barrel on long action origin. Most rounds I have fed through the hs precision 30/06 mag. It feeds fine so far as long as I don't "baby" it. I only have 11.25 twist and 26" total length so long freebore won't benefit me much.
Main purpose of this action is 300winmag for hunting. Secondary purpose , I needed a 308 to shoot in a local match so i repurposed this action in off season. No regrets so far. It's feeding well and shooting well. I'm planning on load development after 100rds. So far I'm shooting ammo I had for a different barrel a couple years ago.

Here are some loads you may benefit from with your 308. You will find that most are not far from Dan Newberry's OCW loads for 308 though I did work them up completely in OCW format to begin with. They have been really good & consistent in my 12 Twist 308 26" varmint profile Remington 700. Some of these can get me to 1000 at 34 ft above sea level but are quickly running out of steam at that distance. I have some more 308 loads that work well in my 7.62 x 51 chambered AR with AR Comp and 168s
I added a Wyatts bottom metal and mag to my 700 to give me a little extra OAL capacity.

1. Win brass. 46 grains Varget, Federal 210 M, 168eldm seated 2.857. Runs 2715fps or so. My barrel seems to be a little slow. That's the velocity where all the dope fits in my ballistic charts and what my chrono gives me. I always back calculate to double check.

2. Win Brass, 45.7-8 IMR 4064, Fed 210m, 168eldm seated 2.857, 2740 velocity. Both of these loads give me single digit ES and SD. As you can see the 4064 load is a touch quicker and I have to dial back slightly when switching from Varget. Both may be a bit warm for high fire rate tournament work but if you are seating farther out they might be fine.

3. Neck Turned LC 85 match brass, 42.8 imr 4064, Fed 210m, 168 Amax seated 2.81. I forgot My velocity number but it's a good shooter. Closely mimics charge weight and performance of Fed, Gold Medal. These may be close for your heavier, thicker walled cases like Lapua.

4. Neck Turned LC 85 with 41.6 grains of H or imr4895, 168 Amax seated 2.81, or truthfully almost any 168 grain bullet, Fed 210m. Around 2600 or so IIRC. Good Shooter but just keep a close eye out for pressure when working up.

5. Really good hunting load. Winchester Brass, 46.6 Varget, 150 accubond seated 2.82, cci200, 2900fps, single digit stats. Tack Driver and boringly accurate load.

6. Neck Turned LC 85 match LC84 brass, 43 grains of IMR or H4895, Fed 210m, 150 accubond seated 2.82, 2900fps. Very low stats, Good load up to around 500 yards for deer And hogs.

Some of these loads should be considered hot. But they show no pressure signs in my rifle. Always start low and work up. Being able to seat bullets out longer, plus the long throat in this riflle, allow for somewhat increased charge weights. These loads are safe in my rifle, they may not be safe in yours.

 

[Turpentine21]

The name .244 Rem is referring to the same cartridge as the 6mm Rem I take it. Always thought it was superior to th 243 Win case.

Have a close buddy with an early.244/ 6mm Rem in the 700. It's a very capable cartridge

 

[nralifer]

Here are some loads you may benefit from with your 308. You will find that most are not far from Dan Newberry's OCW loads for 308 though I did work them up completely in OCW format to begin with. They have been really good & consistent in my 12 Twist 308 26" varmint profile Remington 700. Some of these can get me to 1000 at 34 ft above sea level but are quickly running out of steam at that distance. I have some more 308 loads that work well in my 7.62 x 51 chambered AR with AR Comp and 168s
I added a Wyatts bottom metal and mag to my 700 to give me a little extra OAL capacity.

1. Win brass. 46 grains Varget, Federal 210 M, 168eldm seated 2.857. Runs 2715fps or so. My barrel seems to be a little slow. That's the velocity where all the dope fits in my ballistic charts and what my chrono gives me. I always back calculate to double check.

2. Win Brass, 45.7-8 IMR 4064, Fed 210m, 168eldm seated 2.857, 2740 velocity. Both of these loads give me single digit ES and SD. As you can see the 4064 load is a touch quicker and I have to dial back slightly when switching from Varget. Both may be a bit warm for high fire rate tournament work but if you are seating farther out they might be fine.

3. Neck Turned LC 85 match brass, 42.8 imr 4064, Fed 210m, 168 Amax seated 2.81. I forgot My velocity number but it's a good shooter. Closely mimics charge weight and performance of Fed, Gold Medal. These may be close for your heavier, thicker walled cases like Lapua.

4. Neck Turned LC 85 with 41.6 grains of H or imr4895, 168 Amax seated 2.81, or truthfully almost any 168 grain bullet, Fed 210m. Around 2600 or so IIRC. Good Shooter but just keep a close eye out for pressure when working up.

5. Really good hunting load. Winchester Brass, 46.6 Varget, 150 accubond seated 2.82, cci200, 2900fps, single digit stats. Tack Driver and boringly accurate load.

6. Neck Turned LC 85 match LC84 brass, 43 grains of IMR or H4895, Fed 210m, 150 accubond seated 2.82, 2900fps. Very low stats, Good load up to around 500 yards for deer And hogs.

Some of these loads should be considered hot. But they show no pressure signs in my rifle. Always start low and work up. Being able to seat bullets out longer, plus the long throat in this riflle, allow for somewhat increased charge weights. These loads are safe in my rifle, they may not be safe in yours.

Have you tried small rifle primer brass?

 

[Turpentine21]

Have you tried small rifle primer brass?

No sir, never have.

 

[Mike Matteson]

No sir, never have.

I hadn't realize that 308 brass used SRP's.