Load data for 10mm

The big to-do about shooting lead bullets out of the polygonal barrels is that, like any other barrel, if the leading gets bad, the pressures of even standard loads can go way up. The simple cure is to shoot a few rounds, maybe 20 or so, then check the barrel carefully for leading. Some barrels just lead more than others, simple fact of life. If yours leads badly (and you cannot tell by shooting just one round) then you will either have to give up on the lead or polish the barrel with something like NECO system or the Tubb system. I have not used the Tubb system but the NECO system works if you follow the directions and do it right. It will have no effect (usually... and if it does it will likely be positive) on accuracy but the barrel will very likely reduce or completely stop the leading. If it still leads a little, continue with the finest polishing rounds until it stops. I've had very good luck with the NECO system and I don't suspect the Tubb system to be any different.

The number one thing about shooting plain lead bullets out of your Glock is good old common sense! Don't shoot a couple of rounds of lead, call it good, then blast another 500 rounds if the stuff down range! Check the barrel every 100 rounds or so to be sure. Last is, pop off 10 rounds of stiffly loaded 180 or 200 gr. jacketed rounds after shooting lead bullets (and checking the bore for lead build up. If there's just a little lead the jacketed rounds will, if not actually blow it out, will smooth it down so that there are no lumps that could cause a pressure spike! Again, use your head! If there really are visible lumps of lead in the barrel you didn't check often enough and will have to scrub the lead out. I've heard very good things about Birchwood Casey's lead remover cloth but haven't actually used them... yet! They're on my list. Otherwise, JB Bore cleaner works wonders. Just be prepared, it is labor intensive! Do NOT resort to using bronze brushes and a drill motor. Just don't do it. Removing lead is the *only* time I can recommend pushing and pulling a bronze brush all the through a barrel. If just normal cleaning, a single pass, from chamber to muzzle, is the only way to clean a barrel! Patches only go one way, once. Then they get tossed. Unless you don't worry at all about the long term health of your barrel. If you want your kids and probably grand kids to be able to shoot your pistol as well as you do, take good care of it and pass along the good habits to your descendents and the gun and barrel will last until the govt comes to get them!

If you don't even think of such things, go for the drill motor and beach sand to clean your barrel. Just don't whine to me when you pistol goes from shooting 1" groups at 10 yards to 4" groups!
Cheers,
crkckr
 
Alibiiv said:
I'm curious about the reasoning behind shooting 140gr bullets out of a 10mm? I respect the thread, just thought of the 10mm for heavier bullets and large game. Wouldn't a 9mm or .357 Sig, .40 S&W for in a smaller platform make more sense for 140gr bullet?? This isn't a criticism, it's an honest question. If I we're looking for a lighter bullet I'd be looking for a lighter gun to carry with it. I love my G20, but only use it when black bear hunting and some range time before going hunting.
Click to expand...
Without doing any research wouldn't the 140 grain copper be as long as a 160 165+ lead bullet? If these act like rifle bullets one probably needs velocity for expansion penetration. Not sure effects on load density/capacity. I have some Leigh 160 .44's that I hopefully soon will be able to load try in a Ruger rifle. The Barnes 225 and 200 wouldn't group at all in a gun that shoots 240 factory lead quite well. l assume because the twist rate was way too slow for the longer bullets.
 
crkckr said:
The big to-do about shooting lead bullets out of the polygonal barrels is that, like any other barrel, if the leading gets bad, the pressures of even standard loads can go way up. The simple cure is to shoot a few rounds, maybe 20 or so, then check the barrel carefully for leading. Some barrels just lead more than others, simple fact of life. If yours leads badly (and you cannot tell by shooting just one round) then you will either have to give up on the lead or polish the barrel with something like NECO system or the Tubb system. I have not used the Tubb system but the NECO system works if you follow the directions and do it right. It will have no effect (usually... and if it does it will likely be positive) on accuracy but the barrel will very likely reduce or completely stop the leading. If it still leads a little, continue with the finest polishing rounds until it stops. I've had very good luck with the NECO system and I don't suspect the Tubb system to be any different.

The number one thing about shooting plain lead bullets out of your Glock is good old common sense! Don't shoot a couple of rounds of lead, call it good, then blast another 500 rounds if the stuff down range! Check the barrel every 100 rounds or so to be sure. Last is, pop off 10 rounds of stiffly loaded 180 or 200 gr. jacketed rounds after shooting lead bullets (and checking the bore for lead build up. If there's just a little lead the jacketed rounds will, if not actually blow it out, will smooth it down so that there are no lumps that could cause a pressure spike! Again, use your head! If there really are visible lumps of lead in the barrel you didn't check often enough and will have to scrub the lead out. I've heard very good things about Birchwood Casey's lead remover cloth but haven't actually used them... yet! They're on my list. Otherwise, JB Bore cleaner works wonders. Just be prepared, it is labor intensive! Do NOT resort to using bronze brushes and a drill motor. Just don't do it. Removing lead is the *only* time I can recommend pushing and pulling a bronze brush all the through a barrel. If just normal cleaning, a single pass, from chamber to muzzle, is the only way to clean a barrel! Patches only go one way, once. Then they get tossed. Unless you don't worry at all about the long term health of your barrel. If you want your kids and probably grand kids to be able to shoot your pistol as well as you do, take good care of it and pass along the good habits to your descendents and the gun and barrel will last until the govt comes to get them!

If you don't even think of such things, go for the drill motor and beach sand to clean your barrel. Just don't whine to me when you pistol goes from shooting 1" groups at 10 yards to 4" groups!
Cheers,
crkckr
Click to expand...
The most important thing for shooting lead is to slug your barrel and fit the bullet to it accordingly. Since we're talking 10mm i'll talk about them. Factory jacketed ammo is usually .401". So if your barrel is .400 or .401 then for lead you would want .402-403". Since lead is softer than copper it will swage down to the barrel and seal it. If you were to shoot .401" out of a .401" barrel you might have the bullet not fully engage the rifling and skid down the barrel and deposit lead.
Properly sizing a bullet to a particular barrel will almost always solve any leading issue you may have had in the past.
 
WYO300RUM said:
Look up 140 grain Lehigh Penetrators. A whole different bullet. You don't need the weight but have the fps. I ordered some a couple months ago thinking about grizzly skulls .I haven't loaded any yet. Been using 200 gr. HSM and 220 gr. Grizzly hardcast . I can't find Underwood or even Buffalo Bore.
Click to expand...

Rim Rock hard cast bullets makes the bullets for Buffalo Bore
 
crkckr said:
The big to-do about shooting lead bullets out of the polygonal barrels is that, like any other barrel, if the leading gets bad, the pressures of even standard loads can go way up. The simple cure is to shoot a few rounds, maybe 20 or so, then check the barrel carefully for leading. Some barrels just lead more than others, simple fact of life. If yours leads badly (and you cannot tell by shooting just one round) then you will either have to give up on the lead or polish the barrel with something like NECO system or the Tubb system. I have not used the Tubb system but the NECO system works if you follow the directions and do it right. It will have no effect (usually... and if it does it will likely be positive) on accuracy but the barrel will very likely reduce or completely stop the leading. If it still leads a little, continue with the finest polishing rounds until it stops. I've had very good luck with the NECO system and I don't suspect the Tubb system to be any different.

The number one thing about shooting plain lead bullets out of your Glock is good old common sense! Don't shoot a couple of rounds of lead, call it good, then blast another 500 rounds if the stuff down range! Check the barrel every 100 rounds or so to be sure. Last is, pop off 10 rounds of stiffly loaded 180 or 200 gr. jacketed rounds after shooting lead bullets (and checking the bore for lead build up. If there's just a little lead the jacketed rounds will, if not actually blow it out, will smooth it down so that there are no lumps that could cause a pressure spike! Again, use your head! If there really are visible lumps of lead in the barrel you didn't check often enough and will have to scrub the lead out. I've heard very good things about Birchwood Casey's lead remover cloth but haven't actually used them... yet! They're on my list. Otherwise, JB Bore cleaner works wonders. Just be prepared, it is labor intensive! Do NOT resort to using bronze brushes and a drill motor. Just don't do it. Removing lead is the *only* time I can recommend pushing and pulling a bronze brush all the through a barrel. If just normal cleaning, a single pass, from chamber to muzzle, is the only way to clean a barrel! Patches only go one way, once. Then they get tossed. Unless you don't worry at all about the long term health of your barrel. If you want your kids and probably grand kids to be able to shoot your pistol as well as you do, take good care of it and pass along the good habits to your descendents and the gun and barrel will last until the govt comes to get them!

If you don't even think of such things, go for the drill motor and beach sand to clean your barrel. Just don't whine to me when you pistol goes from shooting 1" groups at 10 yards to 4" groups!
Cheers,
crkckr
Click to expand...
I usually used bleached sanitized playground sand and a stainless steel brunch on a drill. 😉
 
Back in the 80's I had a Glock 17 and a Glock 19 as well as a Glock 21 a few years later and cast for all 3.
There was a product that shotgunners used I think that I used to clean lead residue out of the Glock 17 before I knew how to properly size the cast bullet.Anyone know the name of that product?I used it on a Colt Python also with good results.Still a lot of scrubbing but it worked well.
Can't remember the name of the stuff.
warboar21 I will break down one of the Underwood cast bullets and measure the cast bullet as like you said it needs to be large enough to seal the bore.Been shooting cast lead for rifles and hand guns since the 70's so I'm pretty sure I can figure it out.
 
WYO300RUM said:
Look up 140 grain Lehigh Penetrators. A whole different bullet. You don't need the weight but have the fps. I ordered some a couple months ago thinking about grizzly skulls .I haven't loaded any yet. Been using 200 gr. HSM and 220 gr. Grizzly hardcast . I can't find Underwood or even Buffalo Bore.
Click to expand...
On one video the 140 gr Lehigh went through 2 14in stacks of gel and 2 boxes of wet news paper and recovered the bullet.No expansion at all!Looks like you could reload it.I'll try them out.
 
FYI, leading isn't generally caused by friction or "skidding" or smearing. It's vaporization from the flame front behind the bullet. The vaporized lead condenses in the barrel as the temp drops. I believe this is also the case for copper, though much less due to the considerably higher vaporization temp.

As mentioned, a bullet that isn't tight enough in the bore allows flame to sneak past the base of the bullet, between the bullet and the barrel. This carries the vaporized lead into a cooler area, causing it to condense and deposit.

A properly sized bullet will produce a tighter seal, greatly reducing this. Its a similar principle that makes gas checks effective, though instead of sealing, they simply protect the base of the bullet from the flame reducing vaporized lead.
 
Lead vapor causes the majority of leading but mainly with hotter loads. Another culprit is a rough bore. A rough can literally strip lead off a bullet, which can be a readon your barrel won't shoot lead bullets very well (worst case). That is also the major cause of copper fouling and why the NECO type kits work so well. It is also why custom barrels usually don't foul as badly as factory - the custom barrels are hand lapped making them much smoother and unlikely to collect fouling as rapidly as a rough factory barrel.

That does not, however, always have a huge thing to do with accuracy! I have a Savage 30-06 that has a fairly rough barrel but still shoots into an inch. Plus I had a friend with a WWII era K98 that shot fairly decently considering it was only iron sights. Well enough to get his deer every year. I offered to clean it at my home range once and I put a cloth patch on a nylon brush and could feel how rough the barrel felt as I pushed the brush and patch thru. The patch literally came out shredded to pieces! I eventually got the majoriy of the copper fouling out (with chemicals) without doing anything to it's accuracy but it's the only time I have ever shredded a patch to ruin with one pass! It still kills deer dead in one shot!
Cheers,
crkckr
 
Old rooster said:
Back in the 80's I had a Glock 17 and a Glock 19 as well as a Glock 21 a few years later and cast for all 3.
There was a product that shotgunners used I think that I used to clean lead residue out of the Glock 17 before I knew how to properly size the cast bullet.Anyone know the name of that product?I used it on a Colt Python also with good results.Still a lot of scrubbing but it worked well.
Can't remember the name of the stuff.
warboar21 I will break down one of the Underwood cast bullets and measure the cast bullet as like you said it needs to be large enough to seal the bore.Been shooting cast lead for rifles and hand guns since the 70's so I'm pretty sure I can figure it out.
Click to expand...
IMG_20221226_010740093.jpg
 
I'm not sure I would ever use a Lewis lead remover in a decent barrel. I have one and it uses a coarse bronze or brass screen to get the lead out. You might as well use a stainless brush and beach sand to clean your barrel! Even though I haven't tried it yet, I would think that the Birchwood Casey cloth lead remover is probably better.

There is one product that stands head and shoulders above the rest when it comes to truly removing lead... the Outers Lead and Copper Remover. It can be messy but essentially uses an electrical current to remove lead (or copper, depending on the chemicals used) to plate a stainless steel rod placed in your barrel. It involves plugging one end of your barrel, standing the barrel vertically, filling it with a specific chemical, depending on what you want to remove, then putting the rod in the barrel, with rubber O rings to keep it from contacting the barrel, then running the current, making the barrel an annode and the rod the cathode (I believe I have those terms right but I wouldn't put money on it! One is the "plater" and the other is the "plate-e"... specifically, the rod gets plated with whatever is in the barrel!). It is the only way to remove lead with chemicals and that does not require scrubbing with something that's probably detrimental to your barrel over the years! I have not tried *any* other chemicals that touch lead chemically. And I've tried a bunch of them! Chemically speaking, if you have a product that is supposed to remove something, if you put it on a piece of what it's supposed to remove, there should be some kind of reaction. For example, if I put a drop of Sweets 7.62 on a piece of brass, at the very least it will discolor the brass (Sweets will, in fact, eat right thru a piece of brass with a few applications!). I've put all the lead removing products I've been able to get my hands on and put drops on a piece of polished lead with a whopping Zip/Nada/nuttin' honey in the way of a reaction from the lead! The stuff wipes off, even after sitting all night, with absolutely no reaction on the lead! The chemicals that do seem to work rely on the lead being on top of a coating of brass left from shooting jacketed bullets! So if you only shoot lead bullets, you're kinda screwed!

If anyone knows of a product that does make lead react, please, let me know! I would like to give it a try!
Cheers,
crkckr
 
Last edited:

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