Agreed!
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10mm heavy bullet load data?
- Thread starter Alibiiv
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Agreed!
VLD Pilot
Well-Known Member
I've hands down put all my wheel guns away when it comes to use in bear country for side arm carry. IF, I was using one for harvesting a bear on a hunt...Much different story. I'd hands down pick the wheel gun. Literally over a ton of energy and big heavy well built game bullets. Relaxed animal typically and good guaranteed shot placement. None of this you will have on a confrontation if surprised by an angry or territorial bear or one with Cubs. Firepower is your best friend and numerous shots placed on target is #1. I recently put a Vortex Venom dot on my G20. Made a big difference on my shooting in these kinds of scenarios. Gonna do alot of range work with it and become much more proficient with it. I'm pretty confident with it already.
I know what you mean about having a rotary cuff surgery, had mine in 2012 IIRC. I also tried Bianchi, Kenai, and one more that I cannot remember at the moment but ended returning them. I settled for https://diamonddoutdoors.com/products/denali-chest-holster and surprisingly it is the one that works best for me for half the price.
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I have not settled on optics yet, the Vortex Venom is on my top 5 choices.
VLD Pilot
Well-Known Member
Not sure which would have been a better option as I didn't weigh that out much. I wanted about a 3-4 MOA dot and a faster aquasition set up than the 3 dot iron sight Trijicon I had. Reliability and waterproof was mandatory. I believe I have both.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
JE, I agree with most of what you print and your thoughts on firearms. I believe that you have extensive knowledge about firearms, and totally respect the knowledge that you impart, however I cannot agree with the 460 S&W unless you know something that I am not aware of. The sole use for my Glock 20 is that of a back-up gun for black bear hunting and nothing more other than some occasional plinking. I do have a custom Ruger Blackhawk in 44 magnum that occasional will come out of the safe just to play with, and....that is it. The G20 suits all of my needs for a back-up gun, it is not too heavy to carry and it is not so big that it takes two hands to shoot, and I can hit what I am aiming at very proficiently; shot and carried one for 20+ years, and.....my life did depend on it. I was carrying a Glock 40 as a hunting back up gun, however found it too long to clear out of the Bianci holster due to its length and my four rotator-cuff surgeries. Another plus is while hunting there are 31 rounds of handgun ammunition on my at all times; 16 in the gun and one extra on my belt. Hunters tend to "think" in terms of firepower/knockdown power, sometimes the extra rounds (rifle/pistol) come in very useful if one is lost or injured, or....is looking for someone who is lost by providing a signal. After some extensive research I settled on a Kramer cross-draw holster, I'm waiting for delivery so cannot comment on that holster. I don't hunt from a tree stand as most do, I hunt from a ground blind, thus the cross-draw holster. I looked at the S&W 629PD, found it to be too big and bulky for me, and although there are a number of configurations of the Alaskan style rigs I don't find those holsters conducive to my requirements and style of hunting. If I were in grizzly country, I "might" consider one of the larger cartridges, however I am not hunting grizzly and have confidence in the Glock 20. Also.....one last thing is that I have 500, hard cast, 220 grain bullets from RimRock that I have to get rid of. Also have quite a few boxes of Lehigh 200gr and Buffalo Bore 220 gr bullets sitting on the shelve. And....thank you for all of the input you give to this forum.
I totally agree that the 460 is not for everyone and follow up shots are more difficult. But my philosophy is the first shot is the most important and not to depend on follow up shots.
For self defense they become more important, but the first shot should disable the other person to prevent him from getting of shots at you. Just a preference if i am facing something that wants to do me harm, I want to change his mind.
If I am hunting something dangerous, I will carry both types and use the appropriate one for the circumstance. I know and understand the attraction of a mag full of cartridges but the times I have been charged by a ticked of animal, 2 or maybe 3 shots were all time permitted. If you didn't have it done by then, you were in trouble.
I will always recommend that what is best for you is what you should do/use when choosing a self defence weapon, but my experiences have been different than many and have taught me what worked best for me under the circumstances. In spite of my trust in big pistols, many times based on the conditions and the game, I will use a 3 1/2 " 12 gauge for that charging boar hog that only allows one shot, period. the shot gun adds that point and shoot feature that shots within a few feet requires. If I lived in brown bear country and wasn't in open country, I would probably rely On the shotgun for the back up weapon.
I have had cases where boar hogs were shot within less than 1 or 2 feet and had to jump out of the way to prevent them from knocking me off my feet. The face full of buckshot did the trick and they never recovered from it to give me grief.
Different strokes, for different folks.
J E CUSTOM
I totally agree that the 460 is not for everyone and follow up shots are more difficult. But my philosophy is the first shot is the most important and not to depend on follow up shots.
For self defense they become more important, but the first shot should disable the other person to prevent him from getting of shots at you. Just a preference if i am facing something that wants to do me harm, I want to change his mind.
If I am hunting something dangerous, I will carry both types and use the appropriate one for the circumstance. I know and understand the attraction of a mag full of cartridges but the times I have been charged by a ticked of animal, 2 or maybe 3 shots were all time permitted. If you didn't have it done by then, you were in trouble.
I will always recommend that what is best for you is what you should do/use when choosing a self defence weapon, but my experiences have been different than many and have taught me what worked best for me under the circumstances. In spite of my trust in big pistols, many times based on the conditions and the game, I will use a 3 1/2 " 12 gauge for that charging boar hog that only allows one shot, period. the shot gun adds that point and shoot feature that shots within a few feet requires. If I lived in brown bear country and wasn't in open country, I would probably rely On the shotgun for the back up weapon.
I have had cases where boar hogs were shot within less than 1 or 2 feet and had to jump out of the way to prevent them from knocking me off my feet. The face full of buckshot did the trick and they never recovered from it to give me grief.
Different strokes, for different folks.
J E CUSTOM
Home defense: Remington 870, 18 inch, smooth-bore improved cylinder barrel, 3 inch magnum #4 buckshot= 41, .25 caliber pellets @1200 fps, @66 foot pounds of energy per pellet= 2700 foot pounds of energy per round!! Ought to work for just about anything walking this country. What piqued my interest in #4 buckshot was after I read an book about a professional hunter (Jim Corbett?) in Africa (?) who used a Browning auto shotgun, loaded with #4 buckshot to hunt out and to finish off wounded tigers. I figure if #4 buckshot is good enough for tigers it ought to be good for anything that is about to harm my family or me. Totally agree on the use of a shotgun up close and intimate.
best defense
Well-Known Member
If I may suggest, perhaps you could check with the company that sold the bullets to you.
Axl
Well-Known Member
The O.P. is a pretty sharp guy. After 3 1/2 years he either figured it out or gave up.
Thank you for the reply to my question. I forgot that Rim Rock bullets did supply a reloading sheet inside the box of cast bullets that I got from them. I do prefer loading manuals, however I'll have to go dig out that sheet.
Litrfoot
Well-Known Member
I'm working on some 220 Rim Rock HC loads right now. I've run 5.6 CFE seated to 1.255 OAL. AVG. 950fps. 22lb spring w/4.6 KKM barrel in a Glock 20SF. No cycling issues. To slow for my use, but all functioned and were reasonably accurate. By the book this load tops out at 5.8grs. So it might be possible to crack 1000fps.
I also tested some factory VELO 200 HC dangerous game loads. I ran them with two different springs, 20lb and 22lb. KKM Barrel! I have tested these loads in a stock Glock Barrel and got bulges in the brass! No issues with the KKM, Brass is prefect after firing. So for me, the Glock barrel is a NOGO.
VELO, factory load.
200gr HC
LOT:07221057 stated velocity 1000fps
VELO RESULTS:
20lb spring avg. 1116fps 6 shots, ES 85 and SD of 31.
22lb spring Avg. 1138fps 5 shots, ES 84 and SD 40.
Over at 10mm-firearms.com, there is a couple a folks testing the same thing but with BE-86 And Power Pistol. I'm looking for 1050fps to 1100fps out of my KKM barrel at safe pressures and no FTF's.
I'm am in the process of testing BE-86 with the 220gr Rim Rock HC. When I get the results I will post them.
All shots were recorded with a LabRadar.
I also tested some factory VELO 200 HC dangerous game loads. I ran them with two different springs, 20lb and 22lb. KKM Barrel! I have tested these loads in a stock Glock Barrel and got bulges in the brass! No issues with the KKM, Brass is prefect after firing. So for me, the Glock barrel is a NOGO.
VELO, factory load.
200gr HC
LOT:07221057 stated velocity 1000fps
VELO RESULTS:
20lb spring avg. 1116fps 6 shots, ES 85 and SD of 31.
22lb spring Avg. 1138fps 5 shots, ES 84 and SD 40.
Over at 10mm-firearms.com, there is a couple a folks testing the same thing but with BE-86 And Power Pistol. I'm looking for 1050fps to 1100fps out of my KKM barrel at safe pressures and no FTF's.
I'm am in the process of testing BE-86 with the 220gr Rim Rock HC. When I get the results I will post them.
All shots were recorded with a LabRadar.
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