Lightweight Rifle Build

[dogz]

I have definitely considered it. Guys that have them rave about them!

Couple quick things, what game will you be hunting on a yearly basis?

Next up, I'd highly encourage you to take a long hard look at finding a NULA/ULA with a #2 contour on it in .270. I found one 5 years ago for my 60th birthday and couldn't be happier. Rifle has enough weight to it to be a verifiable 500 yard kill on demand rifle. Far and away if you can find one it's the easy button.

2nd choice for a 500 yard rifle would be a Kimber 84L/ Montana and rebarrel it with a Lilja with their special contour (follows the factory barrel channel to the forend then finishes at .62" at the mzl) with a 8 twist .270 barrel and or a 8 twist in 6.5/06.

3rd choice would be a Havak Element in 6.5 PRC or 270 if they make it.

Lastly, if you wanted a custom build don't dick around, call 50driver and get it sorted out. You sure as heck won't regret it!

Now on to the scope part of the equation............

 

[akmtnhnt]

You can pick components for weight fairly easily.

Proof barrels chambered and threaded
22" Sendero is 45oz
22" Sendero Light is 42-43oz
24" Sendero is 47oz

Bartlein barrels
WTO did a 24" #13 in a 7 SAW that finished exactly 3 lbs (48oz). Bartlein has a weight chart on their site for carbons in 6.5mm caliber so a 7mm barrel will be a little lighter but less than 1 oz difference. Pick your length and knock off 0.4 lbs for your final weight.

Actions
Pierce SkeleTi is 15.9oz
Pure Precision Skltn Ti is 16.0oz
Pure Precision Skltn Stainless is 21.0oz
Defiance anTi is 20.6oz

Hawkins Hunter DBM is 5.4oz
Add 1.9-2.0oz for your trigger.

Stocks
Peak 44 Blacktooth is ~19oz
Manners UC-Plus is ~20-21oz
Add 1-2oz for bedding material

All that gets you in the 90-96oz or 5.6-6.0 lbs

Good luck with getting it to shoot like you want.

Just to show how heavy those carbon barrels are and have no place on ultralight builds, my Douglas featherweight stainless at 18in is 32oz. That's a very large weight savings.

We also can't forget the scope. Most scopes people pick are way too heavy for an ultralight build and also have way to much magnification. Ultralight rifles aren't 800y rifles. They're rarely 500 due to the shooter.

There's significant weight savings in going ADL style as well 3+oz.

For a stock the mpi is lightest. Finished weight is generally around 14oz. But it's not the best for felt recoil or shootability. The echelon is. And can come finished at 16oz if you don't option the crap out of it.

I just knocked a pound off that rifle and it'd cost less to boot.

 

[jrock]

I concur with FiftyDriver. Stocks with good fit up and ergonomics for long range UL hunting are few. That is one reason why I created the CF Versa stock. Going with a stock in that weight class will allow a sub 6 lb build pretty easy. I prefer smaller profile steel barrels over carbon.

Here is one full sized rifle we did with a 24" fluted #2, AnTi action , CF Versa stock, in 7 SAUM. Bare rifle weighed right at 5 lbs. It shoots very well. It has mild recoil with a can and is still controlable without.

I've also built ~5 lb rifles geared around no recoil reducution. Did one on a Dasher and it recoils like a .223 pushing 100 grain bullets at 2950 from a 24" barrel. It's .243 performace with less powder and recoil. A lot goes into matching components, cartrige, and use to have a great shooting UL rifle.

 

[kpacker]

Lite Weight Scope. March
Nuff Said

This

 

[MostlyUselessLurker]

Skeleti action? Im not familiar with it.

Have to read a few pages into that thread to find out all of the information if you're interested.

NEW ACTION- Pierce Engineering Skele-Ti

I have some exciting news for you guys! We have developed a new lightweight hunting action at Pierce Engineering. This action is a skeletonized version of our successful Titanium action and it incorporates a lightened steel bolt. We were able to match the weight of our Ti Featherweight action by...

www.longrangehunting.com

 

[RussellJ]

I build a couple rifles a year and what I'm dreaming up is an ultralight rifle. I bought a Sako 85 carbon light in 308 last year but sold it because of these drawbacks:

-The recoil was snappy and I could not spot my shots

- Accuracy was good for a factory rifle but nothing amazing.

……in that vein, it was a hassle to work up a load for it because after 3-5 shots with a that thin little barrel groups started opening up. Also, it was picky. I was limited on what bullets it liked.

- .308 is a great, efficient cartridge. However, the ballistics are not ideal. After 400 yards, it really starts running out of energy. Not to mention bullet drop and wind drift.

In short, I would always grab one of my heavier custom rifles to go hunting. A lot of work goes into finding a game animal, I want to be confident when it's time to take the shot.

On the plus side, that rifle is absolutely as nice (or even nicer!!) in its fit, finish and feel as any custom I own. Sako's, that one in particular, are absolutely superb. Also, it was hands down the best rifle I have ever tried to carry in the "field". Not that I actually hunted with it but I did haul it around to see how it would do. It's so light (5.4 lbs), comes up to the shoulder nicely and carries in one hand effortlessly that I desperately wanted it to work. Still do.

So here are the parameters I'm thinking:

1. 6lbs or less.
2. Carbon barrel (this will add some weight over a thin steel barrel BUT will shoot better with a wider array of bullets)
3. 22-24 inch barrel. A longer barrel will give better velocity and will have less muzzle flip.
4. Light recoil so I can spot shots but still have enough punch for heavier game to 500 yards or so.

Calibers I'm considering:
25 SST
6.5 SS, PRC or Max
7mm-08 or SAW

I'm leaning towards 7mm SAW using Alpha brass. I think I could get a 150 to 2,900-3,000 fps in a 22inch barrel.

I can weigh out a bunch of components and make this work on paper but my experience has been that this approach doesn't always translate into the whole package feeling right in your hands.

So who has some feedback for me that has gone down this road,

I have a 7SAW-II on a Rem 700 DBL. The cartridge overall length on the 7SAW-II in a DBL bottom metal or ADL is too long in my opinion, I cannot take advantage of the higher BC bullets without a huge bullet jump and loosing case capacity due to the long bullet below the shoulder neck junction on the case. Be careful on your magazine selection.

 

[ObiWanKannoli]

My opinion - carry a 10lb tack driver and figure out where you can shed 2-3 lbs across the other 75 pieces of gear you're bringing in the field. Very doable, maybe even with a new back pack alone. Lightweight rifles generally suck to shoot, especially when you start talking 30 cal magnums and up. Not worth it imo. Too easy to drop weight elsewhere.

 

[Jud96]

There's a lot of good information in here! I'll put my 2 cents in. We build a fair amount of lightweight custom rifles at Pierce Engineering, and we build way more actions for customers who are building lightweight rifles. A lot of things depend on your budget, and the type of game you plan to hunt. Reading through your original post, this is what I'd recommend

-Pierce Shadow or Skele-Ti
-Manners UL, McMillan Hunter Edge, Jack Kiester custom stock
-#2 or #3 steel barrel (Bartlein, Krieger, Mullerworks, Lilja, Brux)
-ADL trigger guard or Hawkins BDL
-Pierce Micro Brake or any other lighter weight muzzle brake
-6.5 PRC or bump up to a long action Skele-Ti that's 16.8oz and run a 7PRC or something similar. I reload, but I like to keep things simple and that tends to work out better for most people.

Let me know if you have any questions about our actions or anything else we can do for you. Thank you!

 

[Husky user]

Just buy a Weatherby backcountry in 6.5 Creedmoor (factory ammo is super accurate) or even 338 RPM (if you want ammo to be hard to find). Save weight in other gear and stop trying to cut ounces off an already light rifle. It's too expensive to make sense when you're already under seven lbs.

I agree the Weatherby Backcountry is about the best light weight rifle you can buy over the counter,.It comes with a break that works pretty good!Also comes in lots of calibers!

 

[Kimber7man]

How do you like the Manners UC+? I'm considering changing out a stock on one of my rifles from ag Visigoth to the Manners UC+ to save some weight.

I love it. cheekpieces work for me, might not for others. I prefer the more vertical grip of the EH-SL, but they don't make that as light as the UC+. Saves 6-8 ounces over the SL and 8 or more over other stocks I've used.

 

[Joshuaham]

I build a couple rifles a year and what I'm dreaming up is an ultralight rifle. I bought a Sako 85 carbon light in 308 last year but sold it because of these drawbacks:

-The recoil was snappy and I could not spot my shots

- Accuracy was good for a factory rifle but nothing amazing.

……in that vein, it was a hassle to work up a load for it because after 3-5 shots with a that thin little barrel groups started opening up. Also, it was picky. I was limited on what bullets it liked.

- .308 is a great, efficient cartridge. However, the ballistics are not ideal. After 400 yards, it really starts running out of energy. Not to mention bullet drop and wind drift.

In short, I would always grab one of my heavier custom rifles to go hunting. A lot of work goes into finding a game animal, I want to be confident when it's time to take the shot.

On the plus side, that rifle is absolutely as nice (or even nicer!!) in its fit, finish and feel as any custom I own. Sako's, that one in particular, are absolutely superb. Also, it was hands down the best rifle I have ever tried to carry in the "field". Not that I actually hunted with it but I did haul it around to see how it would do. It's so light (5.4 lbs), comes up to the shoulder nicely and carries in one hand effortlessly that I desperately wanted it to work. Still do.

So here are the parameters I'm thinking:

1. 6lbs or less.
2. Carbon barrel (this will add some weight over a thin steel barrel BUT will shoot better with a wider array of bullets)
3. 22-24 inch barrel. A longer barrel will give better velocity and will have less muzzle flip.
4. Light recoil so I can spot shots but still have enough punch for heavier game to 500 yards or so.

Calibers I'm considering:
25 SST
6.5 SS, PRC or Max
7mm-08 or SAW

I'm leaning towards 7mm SAW using Alpha brass. I think I could get a 150 to 2,900-3,000 fps in a 22inch barrel.

I can weigh out a bunch of components and make this work on paper but my experience has been that this approach doesn't always translate into the whole package feeling right in your hands.

So who has some feedback for me that has gone down this road,

I have been through this. I opted for the pof rogue. It's under 6# but the action takes up a lot of the kick. Could customize and further lighten it up with a carbon barrel and hand guard. Mine with a 2-8 vx3hd in a dnz mount is under 7#. 5 Rd mag makes it even lighter. Can also rebarrel to 338 federal in theory. It's a 1-1.5 moa gun.

 

[WoodPecker Hunter]

Just buy a Weatherby backcountry in 6.5 Creedmoor (factory ammo is super accurate) or even 338 RPM (if you want ammo to be hard to find). Save weight in other gear and stop trying to cut ounces off an already light rifle. It's too expensive to make sense when you're already under seven lbs.

Jezz ! You don't want 338 RPM in a LW rifle if a guys recoil conscious as the OP stated !

 

[WoodPecker Hunter]

I have a LW REM M7 built in 6.5 Kill More that weights 5-12 oz with a Leupold 3.5-10 Recoil is Fine - Accuracy is Good . Using 127 LRX .
Great packing rifle !

 

[Playtimefun]

The one thing I find rather funny is about being able to see where your shot hits through the scope. I will argue that it is not about the weight of the gun but more so about the stock design combined with a few other parameters. I'll give a few examples... you can watch the bullets hit (cross hairs are about 4-6" off MAX where the bullet impacts) in my Browning Mtn Ti in 7 WSM. The scoped gun weighs 6 lbs 13 ounces (3097 grams because I have an old scale from work). My Remington 700 in 300 WM. You can watch the bullet impact within inches of the cross-hairs, but it's fairly heavy.

For those of you who have shot a Savage 99 in 308... I betcha very very very very very very few have ever been able to watch a bullet impact on the scope. A friends 99 in 308 would rise 14-16" until he got it Mag-na-ported and even then you couldn't watch the bullet impact.

I cant speak to specifics but I firmly believe the fit of the stock combined with where the barrel recoil forces are positioned versus weight is the key. But don't get me wrong... shoot a 10 lb 243 and you should see the bullet hit!!! Technique is of course a part of it. A friend shots his 416 Rigby in a ruger no 1 with max loads like he's shooting a 22. He just let's his body naturally rock with the recoil. and he's accurate as hell. But I can't do that.

The trouble is... unless you have access to stocks galore etc. You will never "plan out" a gun that allows you to see the bullets hit. You will fluke it much more than plan it.

As for brakes... I am the wrong person to ask. I take them off or don't put them on if they come with a gun. I shoot my 30-378 without a brake. I have a custom made 257 Wby (model 70 with a 26 inch barrel) but the previous owner had 6 parts cut into end of the barrel and I hate it!!! I'm looking at cutting the end of it off.