Lightweight Rifle Build

[3800fps]

I've seen this subject visited regularly for the last 50 years….physics has laid down the law…I'd rather carry my 8# reliable first shot tack driver on a "hard-to-get-tag" hunt.
Spend your time at the gym, jogging with a weighted pack and otherwise working out…forego the smokes and the alcohol…

In these discussions it's usually the 20+ extra pounds around the gut guy spending an extra 1K to shed 1# 9 ounces off a gun for a hunt that may only happen every 2-3 years….but to each his own.

 

[cajun]

I bought a savage ultralight in 280ai for my boys to grow into. 22" proof barrel loves 162 eldx and reloader 26 gets us 3005mv and 1/2 moa. Under 6lbs easy button! It has shot several recipes under moa as well.

Easy button for sure. Not close to a custom but you can spend the rest on optics.

 

[Pro2A]

I build a couple rifles a year and what I'm dreaming up is an ultralight rifle. I bought a Sako 85 carbon light in 308 last year but sold it because of these drawbacks:

-The recoil was snappy and I could not spot my shots

- Accuracy was good for a factory rifle but nothing amazing.

……in that vein, it was a hassle to work up a load for it because after 3-5 shots with a that thin little barrel groups started opening up. Also, it was picky. I was limited on what bullets it liked.

- .308 is a great, efficient cartridge. However, the ballistics are not ideal. After 400 yards, it really starts running out of energy. Not to mention bullet drop and wind drift.

In short, I would always grab one of my heavier custom rifles to go hunting. A lot of work goes into finding a game animal, I want to be confident when it's time to take the shot.

On the plus side, that rifle is absolutely as nice (or even nicer!!) in its fit, finish and feel as any custom I own. Sako's, that one in particular, are absolutely superb. Also, it was hands down the best rifle I have ever tried to carry in the "field". Not that I actually hunted with it but I did haul it around to see how it would do. It's so light (5.4 lbs), comes up to the shoulder nicely and carries in one hand effortlessly that I desperately wanted it to work. Still do.

So here are the parameters I'm thinking:

1. 6lbs or less.
2. Carbon barrel (this will add some weight over a thin steel barrel BUT will shoot better with a wider array of bullets)
3. 22-24 inch barrel. A longer barrel will give better velocity and will have less muzzle flip.
4. Light recoil so I can spot shots but still have enough punch for heavier game to 500 yards or so.

Calibers I'm considering:
25 SST
6.5 SS, PRC or Max
7mm-08 or SAW

I'm leaning towards 7mm SAW using Alpha brass. I think I could get a 150 to 2,900-3,000 fps in a 22inch barrel.

I can weigh out a bunch of components and make this work on paper but my experience has been that this approach doesn't always translate into the whole package feeling right in your hands.

So who has some feedback for me that has gone down this road,

Here's my EASY BUTTON. Built three lighweight rilfes......270W, 6.5CM. 308Win, others on horizon.....stainless action/barrel, carbon graphite stock, all well under 6lbs bare. Didn't take long, easy peasy, little actual effort. Wrote checks to sellers for Barrett Fieldcrafts. SWEET little rifles. Find them to be well under MOA for 2-3 shots, pencil lightweight barrels heat up quickly. Just need to do my part, be Chris Kyle-ish 0ne-shot;one-kill when sending it....but, can't remember ever needing more than that....graduate Summa Cum Laude of Dad's and Grandpa's Sniper Schools.

 

[Slick8]

These are both just a touch over 6 lbs. Built on an-ti actions, AG stocks, 1 carbon light at 20 and #3 brux at 24 and both with SSR Ti brakes. They're not in your weight goal but could get close with some tweaks.

Were it me I'd build on a short mag with a brake for your intended purposes. The carbon barreled rifle shown here is a 7 saum running 180 hybrids at 2840.

 

[Fiftydriver]

I build a couple rifles a year and what I'm dreaming up is an ultralight rifle. I bought a Sako 85 carbon light in 308 last year but sold it because of these drawbacks:

-The recoil was snappy and I could not spot my shots

- Accuracy was good for a factory rifle but nothing amazing.

……in that vein, it was a hassle to work up a load for it because after 3-5 shots with a that thin little barrel groups started opening up. Also, it was picky. I was limited on what bullets it liked.

- .308 is a great, efficient cartridge. However, the ballistics are not ideal. After 400 yards, it really starts running out of energy. Not to mention bullet drop and wind drift.

In short, I would always grab one of my heavier custom rifles to go hunting. A lot of work goes into finding a game animal, I want to be confident when it's time to take the shot.

On the plus side, that rifle is absolutely as nice (or even nicer!!) in its fit, finish and feel as any custom I own. Sako's, that one in particular, are absolutely superb. Also, it was hands down the best rifle I have ever tried to carry in the "field". Not that I actually hunted with it but I did haul it around to see how it would do. It's so light (5.4 lbs), comes up to the shoulder nicely and carries in one hand effortlessly that I desperately wanted it to work. Still do.

So here are the parameters I'm thinking:

1. 6lbs or less.
2. Carbon barrel (this will add some weight over a thin steel barrel BUT will shoot better with a wider array of bullets)
3. 22-24 inch barrel. A longer barrel will give better velocity and will have less muzzle flip.
4. Light recoil so I can spot shots but still have enough punch for heavier game to 500 yards or so.

Calibers I'm considering:
25 SST
6.5 SS, PRC or Max
7mm-08 or SAW

I'm leaning towards 7mm SAW using Alpha brass. I think I could get a 150 to 2,900-3,000 fps in a 22inch barrel.

I can weigh out a bunch of components and make this work on paper but my experience has been that this approach doesn't always translate into the whole package feeling right in your hands.

So who has some feedback for me that has gone down this road,

You would not believe how many emails i get every week from potential customers telling me they want a full dimensioned rifle, sub 6 lbs, able to reach out a half mile and cut 1/2 moa groups all day long….. over the past +20 years of building rifles professionally with the mindset toward long range big game hunting precision rifles, i have played with building many different UL rifle designs and have come to some pretty specific standards that have proven solid in my experience.

1. Rifle dimensions: to shoot a rifle accurately, the rifle must fit the shooter reasonably well. Most true UL stock designs DO NOT. Today there are many good choices. I personally like the Game Hunter from McMillan made with their carbon fiber technology. About the best feeling stock on my opinion and light and strong and easy to shoot well at long range. Are there lighter stocks, certainly, but most give up comfort or fit in one way or another.

2. Barrel weight: in my rifles, most are chambered for some pretty intense chamberings. With a 308 or that class of chambering, barrel weight is less of a consideration but still important. Barrel rigidity and stiffness need to always be a consideration if one wants legit long range precision. As far as barrel heat goes, thats just part of it, got to live with it to some degree. Carbon barrels will help some but not as much as most think. Even a #3 contour barrel is stiffer then a light sendero contoured carbon fiber barrel, tested and proven that. Carbon barrels also require larger stock forends, more weight in the stock. MOST carbon barrels will have some degree of WALKING in their groups as they warm up. Bartleins have been the best for me in this aspect and seem to be the most consistent. Some are very noticable. Cost….. you can get two all steel barrels for the cost of one carbon….. worth it, not to me but customers the boss. Most top quality carbon barrels do shoot well enough for first three shots to meet my 1/2 moa accuracy standard at long range.

3. Recoil: its amazing how often i hear, "I want to spot my own shots" when using a 5.5 lb rifle and customers are upset they can not do that, even with muzzle brakes……. Some common sense needs to be applied here. This is simple physics my friends. You out a certain amount of energy into a 5.5 lb object, its going to move around and make it difficult to spot impacts. The size of the chambering has much effect on this for sure. Really the only way to get a light weight rifle to have very low recoil is to use a muzzle brake. But not any brake will do. You need a brake that will lock the muzzle position so recoil needs to be controlled as well as muzzle jump also needs to be controlled, exactly why my PK brakes are designed the way they are. Radial port brakes will not help much seeing your impacts……

Your comments about a longer barrel will give higher velocity and less muzzle flip counteract each other. Muzzle flip or jump is simply a product of the amount of energy put into a rifle system. Longer barrel means more velocity, more velocity means more recoil energy, more recoil energy means more muzzle flip unless controlled in some manner.

In my professional opinion, for a long range lightweight rifle, these are the specs i would recommend if you came to me wanting to build this rifle and to get you a rifle you would be happy with in the end.

- 6.5 lb bare rifle weight
- chambering would be something on the 6.5 prc, wsm class case
- 24-25" barrel length
- carbon fiber stock, full dimension
- #3 fluted all steel barrel
- My PK or similar brake design

I have built many of my UL Stalkers in the 6.5 lb range in standard chamberings and many more in the 7.0-7.25 lb range in my super wildcats such as my 7mm AM that are legit 1/2 moa @ 1/2 mile rifles.

I have also yet to see any mature, healthy make hunter who could not easily pack a 6.5-7.0 lb bare rifle weight rifle in any terrain condition out there. And when the time comes to take a 400-500-600 yard shot in field conditions, success is much easier with 6.5-7.0 lb rifle….

Listened to literally hundreds of hunters say they love their UL rifles but they just dont shoot well past 300-400 yards or miss in field conditons….. often not the rifles fault, most often ours when shooting in field conditions with such light rifles.

Probably ruffle some feathers with this one but just my honest experience of working with shooters and hunters for over two decades and seeing what does and does not work well.

 

[ART W]

The 7-08 will get 2675 -2700 fps with a Berger 168 Hunting bullet in a 22 inch barrel, REM 700 with a muzzle brake if you use RL-17. Weight is easily controlled with a good stock. You should be able hit 2850-2875 easily with a 150 grain flat base bullet. The rifle my son uses is a 700 with a Bell and Carlson stock. The scope adds the weight as he has an IOR 3-18 x 42 on it, but it is a great mountain rifle. If he re-barrels it in the future we go to a carbon wrapped barrel and keep at 24 inches w/o a brake.

 

[Marky_mark]

You would not believe how many emails i get every week from potential customers telling me they want a full dimensioned rifle, sub 6 lbs, able to reach out a half mile and cut 1/2 moa groups all day long….. over the past +20 years of building rifles professionally with the mindset toward long range big game hunting precision rifles, i have played with building many different UL rifle designs and have come to some pretty specific standards that have proven solid in my experience.

1. Rifle dimensions: to shoot a rifle accurately, the rifle must fit the shooter reasonably well. Most true UL stock designs DO NOT. Today there are many good choices. I personally like the Game Hunter from McMillan made with their carbon fiber technology. About the best feeling stock on my opinion and light and strong and easy to shoot well at long range. Are there lighter stocks, certainly, but most give up comfort or fit in one way or another.

2. Barrel weight: in my rifles, most are chambered for some pretty intense chamberings. With a 308 or that class of chambering, barrel weight is less of a consideration but still important. Barrel rigidity and stiffness need to always be a consideration if one wants legit long range precision. As far as barrel heat goes, thats just part of it, got to live with it to some degree. Carbon barrels will help some but not as much as most think. Even a #3 contour barrel is stiffer then a light sendero contoured carbon fiber barrel, tested and proven that. Carbon barrels also require larger stock forends, more weight in the stock. MOST carbon barrels will have some degree of WALKING in their groups as they warm up. Bartleins have been the best for me in this aspect and seem to be the most consistent. Some are very noticable. Cost….. you can get two all steel barrels for the cost of one carbon….. worth it, not to me but customers the boss. Most top quality carbon barrels do shoot well enough for first three shots to meet my 1/2 moa accuracy standard at long range.

3. Recoil: its amazing how often i hear, "I want to spot my own shots" when using a 5.5 lb rifle and customers are upset they can not do that, even with muzzle brakes……. Some common sense needs to be applied here. This is simple physics my friends. You out a certain amount of energy into a 5.5 lb object, its going to move around and make it difficult to spot impacts. The size of the chambering has much effect on this for sure. Really the only way to get a light weight rifle to have very low recoil is to use a muzzle brake. But not any brake will do. You need a brake that will lock the muzzle position so recoil needs to be controlled as well as muzzle jump also needs to be controlled, exactly why my PK brakes are designed the way they are. Radial port brakes will not help much seeing your impacts……

Your comments about a longer barrel will give higher velocity and less muzzle flip counteract each other. Muzzle flip or jump is simply a product of the amount of energy put into a rifle system. Longer barrel means more velocity, more velocity means more recoil energy, more recoil energy means more muzzle flip unless controlled in some manner.

In my professional opinion, for a long range lightweight rifle, these are the specs i would recommend if you came to me wanting to build this rifle and to get you a rifle you would be happy with in the end.

- 6.5 lb bare rifle weight
- chambering would be something on the 6.5 prc, wsm class case
- 24-25" barrel length
- carbon fiber stock, full dimension
- #3 fluted all steel barrel
- My PK or similar brake design

I have built many of my UL Stalkers in the 6.5 lb range in standard chamberings and many more in the 7.0-7.25 lb range in my super wildcats such as my 7mm AM that are legit 1/2 moa @ 1/2 mile rifles.

I have also yet to see any mature, healthy make hunter who could not easily pack a 6.5-7.0 lb bare rifle weight rifle in any terrain condition out there. And when the time comes to take a 400-500-600 yard shot in field conditions, success is much easier with 6.5-7.0 lb rifle….

Listened to literally hundreds of hunters say they love their UL rifles but they just dont shoot well past 300-400 yards or miss in field conditons….. often not the rifles fault, most often ours when shooting in field conditions with such light rifles.

Probably ruffle some feathers with this one but just my honest experience of working with shooters and hunters for over two decades and seeing what does and does not work well.

100% the honest truth right here.
Shave weight off of all your other gear before you should consider shaving weight off your rifle system
The big question is? How are you going to carry an animal out of the mountains if you cant even carry a 8 lb rifle???

 

[Gorill@]

Buy once, cry once. Proof carbon 2.4 lbs., MDT carbon fiber HNT24 stock, Zermatt origin action. 6 lbs? I'll let you know when assembled.

 

[Slick8]

You would not believe how many emails i get every week from potential customers telling me they want a full dimensioned rifle, sub 6 lbs, able to reach out a half mile and cut 1/2 moa groups all day long….. over the past +20 years of building rifles professionally with the mindset toward long range big game hunting precision rifles, i have played with building many different UL rifle designs and have come to some pretty specific standards that have proven solid in my experience.

1. Rifle dimensions: to shoot a rifle accurately, the rifle must fit the shooter reasonably well. Most true UL stock designs DO NOT. Today there are many good choices. I personally like the Game Hunter from McMillan made with their carbon fiber technology. About the best feeling stock on my opinion and light and strong and easy to shoot well at long range. Are there lighter stocks, certainly, but most give up comfort or fit in one way or another.

2. Barrel weight: in my rifles, most are chambered for some pretty intense chamberings. With a 308 or that class of chambering, barrel weight is less of a consideration but still important. Barrel rigidity and stiffness need to always be a consideration if one wants legit long range precision. As far as barrel heat goes, thats just part of it, got to live with it to some degree. Carbon barrels will help some but not as much as most think. Even a #3 contour barrel is stiffer then a light sendero contoured carbon fiber barrel, tested and proven that. Carbon barrels also require larger stock forends, more weight in the stock. MOST carbon barrels will have some degree of WALKING in their groups as they warm up. Bartleins have been the best for me in this aspect and seem to be the most consistent. Some are very noticable. Cost….. you can get two all steel barrels for the cost of one carbon….. worth it, not to me but customers the boss. Most top quality carbon barrels do shoot well enough for first three shots to meet my 1/2 moa accuracy standard at long range.

3. Recoil: its amazing how often i hear, "I want to spot my own shots" when using a 5.5 lb rifle and customers are upset they can not do that, even with muzzle brakes……. Some common sense needs to be applied here. This is simple physics my friends. You out a certain amount of energy into a 5.5 lb object, its going to move around and make it difficult to spot impacts. The size of the chambering has much effect on this for sure. Really the only way to get a light weight rifle to have very low recoil is to use a muzzle brake. But not any brake will do. You need a brake that will lock the muzzle position so recoil needs to be controlled as well as muzzle jump also needs to be controlled, exactly why my PK brakes are designed the way they are. Radial port brakes will not help much seeing your impacts……

Your comments about a longer barrel will give higher velocity and less muzzle flip counteract each other. Muzzle flip or jump is simply a product of the amount of energy put into a rifle system. Longer barrel means more velocity, more velocity means more recoil energy, more recoil energy means more muzzle flip unless controlled in some manner.

In my professional opinion, for a long range lightweight rifle, these are the specs i would recommend if you came to me wanting to build this rifle and to get you a rifle you would be happy with in the end.

- 6.5 lb bare rifle weight
- chambering would be something on the 6.5 prc, wsm class case
- 24-25" barrel length
- carbon fiber stock, full dimension
- #3 fluted all steel barrel
- My PK or similar brake design

I have built many of my UL Stalkers in the 6.5 lb range in standard chamberings and many more in the 7.0-7.25 lb range in my super wildcats such as my 7mm AM that are legit 1/2 moa @ 1/2 mile rifles.

I have also yet to see any mature, healthy make hunter who could not easily pack a 6.5-7.0 lb bare rifle weight rifle in any terrain condition out there. And when the time comes to take a 400-500-600 yard shot in field conditions, success is much easier with 6.5-7.0 lb rifle….

Listened to literally hundreds of hunters say they love their UL rifles but they just dont shoot well past 300-400 yards or miss in field conditons….. often not the rifles fault, most often ours when shooting in field conditions with such light rifles.

Probably ruffle some feathers with this one but just my honest experience of working with shooters and hunters for over two decades and seeing what does and does not work well.

Nail meets hammer, great post!

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Drink an extra bottle of water before you go. Take that 16-20oz out of your projected pack weight, and add it to the rifle. Violá, done.

Give me an 8-9# rifle scoped/suppressed all day. I would much rather have a rifle easier to shoot well. Heck, most of my hunting rifles are 9-10.5#.

By the time you get an optic worth a **** for dialing on it a 6lbs rifle ends up 8lbs. My Element that started 5lbs 14.9oz out of the gate with only mag no brake and with 3.9oz Hawkins UL rings, a 26oz optic, and 3.7oz Hawkins brake is just over 8lbs. With TBAC ultra 7 instead of the brake and spartan bipod I'm just over 9lbs. They add weight quick when you start hanging stuff off of them and I'd rather have a lighter rifle to afford the weight of a more reliable optic while keeping weight reasonable.

My Bergara Sierra which is also a 22" 7 PRC started out 7lbs 11oz is just shy of 11lbs with an optic that's only a few ounces heavier, Hawkins brake, and a Harris bipod. Only 3lbs difference but that Element feels like a feather in comparison and the Element is nicer to shoot and more accurate despite a significantly skinnier barrel and much deeper flutes.

 

[crazymonkey]

As stated not very realistic . The lighter you go the more recoil you feel . Basic laws of physics. A 6 lb rifle bare is going to be around 8/9 scoped . My 7-08 is a rack driver at 15/16 lbs . Went light and carbon and my 280ai is 7lbs 4 Oz with a scope add 28 Oz plus rings and level and it's going to finish around 8.5/ 9 lbs . Going light isn't cheap !! Carbon barrel,stock,and a great light weight scope and your in the 4 to 5 grand range w/o a action or smith work . That's between 1500 and 2500 conservative for the latter so your in north of 5 to 6 plus thousand or more .

 

[eastbank]

i wanted a light weight walking rifle for mid size game in 7mm08-.308 and looked for a kimber Montana, when a new one showed up at a local dealer in .257 roberts at a reduced price(seemed no one wanted it). i bought it for 700.00 out the door, with a compact 2-7 Leupold added and light weight tally rings it comes in at 6.3 lbs. with a stout load of hybrid-100V and a115 gr bullet it a moa rifle for three shots. i shot a rather large doe whitetail at close to 200 yards, one shot destroyed the lungs producing a quick death.

 

[JiggyIi]

This is what I have and trying to shed more weight. 5.08ozs to be exact, but will go to 6# with optic. I have managed to get a lite recoiling 308win 22" m118 chamber w/brake using m80 ammo. My 15.5# 243win AR kicks harder than 308win of 2/3 the weight. Smaller caliber doesn't create an answer. Lighter bullet going faster will tho as I've built many that way.

I love your helper

 

[DakotaRingo]

You would not believe how many emails i get every week from potential customers telling me they want a full dimensioned rifle, sub 6 lbs, able to reach out a half mile and cut 1/2 moa groups ..........

Well said and informative.
What are your thoughts - opinions with respect to 6mm PRC in fulfilling a lightish, push of envelop with respect to range of hunter/varmiter and stretching shots on steel? Granddaughter (12 yrs) manages good accuracy to 200 (& a bit) yards with 22LR (& learning). She would like to move up into a centerfire to include hunting. State regs on deer requires centerfire to be .24 cal or better.