Lightweight Rifle Build

[redneckbmxer24]

You could accomplish the same thing with a 6CM or 243 and get 1200-1500 rounds barrel life vs sub 800 for something crazy overbore like a 6PRC and have less recoil too. That extra 300fps isn't going to make a difference terminally except for increasing the chances of bullets splashing on impact and making entrance wound craters at closer ranges.

 

[LTH181818]

The previous post is spot on for parts. You can always do an ADL style to lose a few extra oz too. And talley style one piece ring/base combo.

You'll need a brake and slow your load development down. Thats the one big downside of building lightweights is you have to take your time shooting. Get a barrel cooler. Well worth it to save time.

After you have a load worked up, you only need maybe 2 shots on game.

Agree, ADL one of the of the best options. Scopes are always my issue.

 

[LTH181818]

You would not believe how many emails i get every week from potential customers telling me they want a full dimensioned rifle, sub 6 lbs, able to reach out a half mile and cut 1/2 moa groups all day long….. over the past +20 years of building rifles professionally with the mindset toward long range big game hunting precision rifles, i have played with building many different UL rifle designs and have come to some pretty specific standards that have proven solid in my experience.

1. Rifle dimensions: to shoot a rifle accurately, the rifle must fit the shooter reasonably well. Most true UL stock designs DO NOT. Today there are many good choices. I personally like the Game Hunter from McMillan made with their carbon fiber technology. About the best feeling stock on my opinion and light and strong and easy to shoot well at long range. Are there lighter stocks, certainly, but most give up comfort or fit in one way or another.

2. Barrel weight: in my rifles, most are chambered for some pretty intense chamberings. With a 308 or that class of chambering, barrel weight is less of a consideration but still important. Barrel rigidity and stiffness need to always be a consideration if one wants legit long range precision. As far as barrel heat goes, thats just part of it, got to live with it to some degree. Carbon barrels will help some but not as much as most think. Even a #3 contour barrel is stiffer then a light sendero contoured carbon fiber barrel, tested and proven that. Carbon barrels also require larger stock forends, more weight in the stock. MOST carbon barrels will have some degree of WALKING in their groups as they warm up. Bartleins have been the best for me in this aspect and seem to be the most consistent. Some are very noticable. Cost….. you can get two all steel barrels for the cost of one carbon….. worth it, not to me but customers the boss. Most top quality carbon barrels do shoot well enough for first three shots to meet my 1/2 moa accuracy standard at long range.

3. Recoil: its amazing how often i hear, "I want to spot my own shots" when using a 5.5 lb rifle and customers are upset they can not do that, even with muzzle brakes……. Some common sense needs to be applied here. This is simple physics my friends. You out a certain amount of energy into a 5.5 lb object, its going to move around and make it difficult to spot impacts. The size of the chambering has much effect on this for sure. Really the only way to get a light weight rifle to have very low recoil is to use a muzzle brake. But not any brake will do. You need a brake that will lock the muzzle position so recoil needs to be controlled as well as muzzle jump also needs to be controlled, exactly why my PK brakes are designed the way they are. Radial port brakes will not help much seeing your impacts……

Your comments about a longer barrel will give higher velocity and less muzzle flip counteract each other. Muzzle flip or jump is simply a product of the amount of energy put into a rifle system. Longer barrel means more velocity, more velocity means more recoil energy, more recoil energy means more muzzle flip unless controlled in some manner.

In my professional opinion, for a long range lightweight rifle, these are the specs i would recommend if you came to me wanting to build this rifle and to get you a rifle you would be happy with in the end.

- 6.5 lb bare rifle weight
- chambering would be something on the 6.5 prc, wsm class case
- 24-25" barrel length
- carbon fiber stock, full dimension
- #3 fluted all steel barrel
- My PK or similar brake design

I have built many of my UL Stalkers in the 6.5 lb range in standard chamberings and many more in the 7.0-7.25 lb range in my super wildcats such as my 7mm AM that are legit 1/2 moa @ 1/2 mile rifles.

I have also yet to see any mature, healthy make hunter who could not easily pack a 6.5-7.0 lb bare rifle weight rifle in any terrain condition out there. And when the time comes to take a 400-500-600 yard shot in field conditions, success is much easier with 6.5-7.0 lb rifle….

Listened to literally hundreds of hunters say they love their UL rifles but they just dont shoot well past 300-400 yards or miss in field conditons….. often not the rifles fault, most often ours when shooting in field conditions with such light rifles.

Probably ruffle some feathers with this one but just my honest experience of working with shooters and hunters for over two decades and seeing what does and does not work well.

Very good advice.

 

[98s1lightning]

Sometime I can't get a quote to go away, disregard above

My 21.5" sporter bbl 284win shoots a 150gr NP @ 2800+
I just put it in a lighter stock so it will kick more, but recoil has not been an issue

But if your wanting more power than a 308 I don't think the 284 or 7mm-08 is the answer, they are the same class in my eyes. I say the 7mm-08 is slightly less energy than 308 and 284 is about equal

What about a 300wsm

Or the Forbes M20?

The New 284 Winchester — Ron Spomer Outdoors

Winchester made a mistake in 1963 when it created the 284 Winchester cartridge. That might be why it has taken nearly 60 years for the shooting public to discover the outstanding ballistic performance of this overlooked round. Winchester’s mistake wasn’t the cartridge itself. It was where they put

www.ronspomeroutdoors.com

 

[ARlife4me]

Is that an AR build?
BB

100%

 

[AZ82New]

If you're driving a 150 to 3000 in the sub 6 lb rifle it's going to be snappy no matter what you do.... unless you like brakes or cans.

These days most stock patterns can be had in an ultra light carbon shell, that being your primary interface should make shouldering it easier if you have a pattern you already like. It's tough to balance an ultra light rifle, Especially considering a 22 to 24 inch In most of the carbon Contours is still going to be over three pounds. That would have you chasing manners Ultra carbon stock and probably a skeleti acton to hit that weight goal with a trigger, and mag box. If you like muzzle prominent setups, it should be fairly straight forward.

I'd be trending towards 6.5 cal moderate rounds like the prc.

Skeleti action? Im not familiar with it.

 

[AZ82New]

Proof has a barrel weight chart, 22" 7mm barrel is just shy of 3lbs on its own. Doesn't leave a lot to play with.
That light the gun had better be balanced. If it ends up 6lbs and barrel heavy it will still be a pain to carry on the woods.
I've only shot one NULA owned by a friend in 7-08, Mr Forbes had that design dialed in, gun came straight back and didn't "flip". I would look for a used one or take a chance on Wilson Combats newer iterations.

I have definitely considered it. Guys that have them rave about them!

 

[Lenny Foffa]

Weatherby Mark V Ultralight Rifle. 5 and 3/4 pounds with a 24-inch Krieger s/s barrel. Mine is chambered in .270 Win and is my number one deer rifle for 10 plus years. I have also seen them ( used) chambered in 30 -06. Light easy to tote around all day. Very Accurate Hunting Rifle!!! I suppose NOW you get Rifles that use Titanium , and get a factory rifle at 5.5 pounds or even a bit less. Even with the addition of a new Weatherby Muzzle break fitted to my barrel, I personally do not expect to see my hits when using a High Velocity 3000fps Load, in a super light rifle. I suppose that's the tradeoff and the deal breaker for you . Good Luck on your search buddy

 

[LTH181818]

Skeleti action? Im not familiar with it.

Peirce

 

[floyd kittrell]

I build a couple rifles a year and what I'm dreaming up is an ultralight rifle. I bought a Sako 85 carbon light in 308 last year but sold it because of these drawbacks:

-The recoil was snappy and I could not spot my shots

- Accuracy was good for a factory rifle but nothing amazing.

……in that vein, it was a hassle to work up a load for it because after 3-5 shots with a that thin little barrel groups started opening up. Also, it was picky. I was limited on what bullets it liked.

- .308 is a great, efficient cartridge. However, the ballistics are not ideal. After 400 yards, it really starts running out of energy. Not to mention bullet drop and wind drift.

In short, I would always grab one of my heavier custom rifles to go hunting. A lot of work goes into finding a game animal, I want to be confident when it's time to take the shot.

On the plus side, that rifle is absolutely as nice (or even nicer!!) in its fit, finish and feel as any custom I own. Sako's, that one in particular, are absolutely superb. Also, it was hands down the best rifle I have ever tried to carry in the "field". Not that I actually hunted with it but I did haul it around to see how it would do. It's so light (5.4 lbs), comes up to the shoulder nicely and carries in one hand effortlessly that I desperately wanted it to work. Still do.

So here are the parameters I'm thinking:

1. 6lbs or less.
2. Carbon barrel (this will add some weight over a thin steel barrel BUT will shoot better with a wider array of bullets)
3. 22-24 inch barrel. A longer barrel will give better velocity and will have less muzzle flip.
4. Light recoil so I can spot shots but still have enough punch for heavier game to 500 yards or so.

Calibers I'm considering:
25 SST
6.5 SS, PRC or Max
7mm-08 or SAW

I'm leaning towards 7mm SAW using Alpha brass. I think I could get a 150 to 2,900-3,000 fps in a 22inch barrel.

I can weigh out a bunch of components and make this work on paper but my experience has been that this approach doesn't always translate into the whole package feeling right in your hands.

So who has some feedback for me that has gone down this road,

If you struggle with accuracy, put a barrel tuner on it and a muzzle break to time it so you can spot your hits on critters.

 

[AZ82New]

You would not believe how many emails i get every week from potential customers telling me they want a full dimensioned rifle, sub 6 lbs, able to reach out a half mile and cut 1/2 moa groups all day long….. over the past +20 years of building rifles professionally with the mindset toward long range big game hunting precision rifles, i have played with building many different UL rifle designs and have come to some pretty specific standards that have proven solid in my experience.

1. Rifle dimensions: to shoot a rifle accurately, the rifle must fit the shooter reasonably well. Most true UL stock designs DO NOT. Today there are many good choices. I personally like the Game Hunter from McMillan made with their carbon fiber technology. About the best feeling stock on my opinion and light and strong and easy to shoot well at long range. Are there lighter stocks, certainly, but most give up comfort or fit in one way or another.

2. Barrel weight: in my rifles, most are chambered for some pretty intense chamberings. With a 308 or that class of chambering, barrel weight is less of a consideration but still important. Barrel rigidity and stiffness need to always be a consideration if one wants legit long range precision. As far as barrel heat goes, thats just part of it, got to live with it to some degree. Carbon barrels will help some but not as much as most think. Even a #3 contour barrel is stiffer then a light sendero contoured carbon fiber barrel, tested and proven that. Carbon barrels also require larger stock forends, more weight in the stock. MOST carbon barrels will have some degree of WALKING in their groups as they warm up. Bartleins have been the best for me in this aspect and seem to be the most consistent. Some are very noticable. Cost….. you can get two all steel barrels for the cost of one carbon….. worth it, not to me but customers the boss. Most top quality carbon barrels do shoot well enough for first three shots to meet my 1/2 moa accuracy standard at long range.

3. Recoil: its amazing how often i hear, "I want to spot my own shots" when using a 5.5 lb rifle and customers are upset they can not do that, even with muzzle brakes……. Some common sense needs to be applied here. This is simple physics my friends. You out a certain amount of energy into a 5.5 lb object, its going to move around and make it difficult to spot impacts. The size of the chambering has much effect on this for sure. Really the only way to get a light weight rifle to have very low recoil is to use a muzzle brake. But not any brake will do. You need a brake that will lock the muzzle position so recoil needs to be controlled as well as muzzle jump also needs to be controlled, exactly why my PK brakes are designed the way they are. Radial port brakes will not help much seeing your impacts……

Your comments about a longer barrel will give higher velocity and less muzzle flip counteract each other. Muzzle flip or jump is simply a product of the amount of energy put into a rifle system. Longer barrel means more velocity, more velocity means more recoil energy, more recoil energy means more muzzle flip unless controlled in some manner.

In my professional opinion, for a long range lightweight rifle, these are the specs i would recommend if you came to me wanting to build this rifle and to get you a rifle you would be happy with in the end.

- 6.5 lb bare rifle weight
- chambering would be something on the 6.5 prc, wsm class case
- 24-25" barrel length
- carbon fiber stock, full dimension
- #3 fluted all steel barrel
- My PK or similar brake design

I have built many of my UL Stalkers in the 6.5 lb range in standard chamberings and many more in the 7.0-7.25 lb range in my super wildcats such as my 7mm AM that are legit 1/2 moa @ 1/2 mile rifles.

I have also yet to see any mature, healthy make hunter who could not easily pack a 6.5-7.0 lb bare rifle weight rifle in any terrain condition out there. And when the time comes to take a 400-500-600 yard shot in field conditions, success is much easier with 6.5-7.0 lb rifle….

Listened to literally hundreds of hunters say they love their UL rifles but they just dont shoot well past 300-400 yards or miss in field conditons….. often not the rifles fault, most often ours when shooting in field conditions with such light rifles.

Probably ruffle some feathers with this one but just my honest experience of working with shooters and hunters for over two decades and seeing what does and does not work well.

Talk to me about scopes you would recommend.
I have tried a bunch and keep coming back to the good ol' Leupold VX HD series. For obvious reasons I find something like the Athlon Cronus to be easier to make long range shots with (like a lot easier) but mounted on a hunting rifle it throws the feel way off because the rifle becomes top heavy.

What would you mount?

 

[J_V_Berry]

You can't fight physics. You will just have to deal with the 3-5 shots at a time from the bench with the lightweight barrel. You can't dissipate the heat fast enough so the only option you have is a barrel cooler like what was said above. In the field, a lighter rifle is harder to shoot accurately, and if you need more than 2-3 shots in the field you need to spend more time practicing your shooting.

Spotting your own shots at a closer range is **** near impossible with a fast cartridge. You will have to use a good partition style brake, or a good suppressor, no way around it. I can start spotting my shots with the 7mm Allen Magnum at 600 yds. and that is with a medium painkiller brake on it.

I have a Kimber Mountain Ascent that isn't bad at all to shoot with a brake or suppressor on it. Sans glass it weighs 4 pounds 13 ounces in .308 with a 22" barrel. Lets see you build something lighter.

Here's another way to look at it. The difference between a 5# rifle and a 6# rifle is roughly the difference between taking a dump before going hunting or not. ROFL.

I am hoping you are not carrying that dump in you hands! I do like carrying my kimber but it is harder to shoot well

 

[COBrad]

You would not believe how many emails i get every week from potential customers telling me they want a full dimensioned rifle, sub 6 lbs, able to reach out a half mile and cut 1/2 moa groups all day long….. over the past +20 years of building rifles professionally with the mindset toward long range big game hunting precision rifles, i have played with building many different UL rifle designs and have come to some pretty specific standards that have proven solid in my experience.

1. Rifle dimensions: to shoot a rifle accurately, the rifle must fit the shooter reasonably well. Most true UL stock designs DO NOT. Today there are many good choices. I personally like the Game Hunter from McMillan made with their carbon fiber technology. About the best feeling stock on my opinion and light and strong and easy to shoot well at long range. Are there lighter stocks, certainly, but most give up comfort or fit in one way or another.

2. Barrel weight: in my rifles, most are chambered for some pretty intense chamberings. With a 308 or that class of chambering, barrel weight is less of a consideration but still important. Barrel rigidity and stiffness need to always be a consideration if one wants legit long range precision. As far as barrel heat goes, thats just part of it, got to live with it to some degree. Carbon barrels will help some but not as much as most think. Even a #3 contour barrel is stiffer then a light sendero contoured carbon fiber barrel, tested and proven that. Carbon barrels also require larger stock forends, more weight in the stock. MOST carbon barrels will have some degree of WALKING in their groups as they warm up. Bartleins have been the best for me in this aspect and seem to be the most consistent. Some are very noticable. Cost….. you can get two all steel barrels for the cost of one carbon….. worth it, not to me but customers the boss. Most top quality carbon barrels do shoot well enough for first three shots to meet my 1/2 moa accuracy standard at long range.

3. Recoil: its amazing how often i hear, "I want to spot my own shots" when using a 5.5 lb rifle and customers are upset they can not do that, even with muzzle brakes……. Some common sense needs to be applied here. This is simple physics my friends. You out a certain amount of energy into a 5.5 lb object, its going to move around and make it difficult to spot impacts. The size of the chambering has much effect on this for sure. Really the only way to get a light weight rifle to have very low recoil is to use a muzzle brake. But not any brake will do. You need a brake that will lock the muzzle position so recoil needs to be controlled as well as muzzle jump also needs to be controlled, exactly why my PK brakes are designed the way they are. Radial port brakes will not help much seeing your impacts……

Your comments about a longer barrel will give higher velocity and less muzzle flip counteract each other. Muzzle flip or jump is simply a product of the amount of energy put into a rifle system. Longer barrel means more velocity, more velocity means more recoil energy, more recoil energy means more muzzle flip unless controlled in some manner.

In my professional opinion, for a long range lightweight rifle, these are the specs i would recommend if you came to me wanting to build this rifle and to get you a rifle you would be happy with in the end.

- 6.5 lb bare rifle weight
- chambering would be something on the 6.5 prc, wsm class case
- 24-25" barrel length
- carbon fiber stock, full dimension
- #3 fluted all steel barrel
- My PK or similar brake design

I have built many of my UL Stalkers in the 6.5 lb range in standard chamberings and many more in the 7.0-7.25 lb range in my super wildcats such as my 7mm AM that are legit 1/2 moa @ 1/2 mile rifles.

I have also yet to see any mature, healthy make hunter who could not easily pack a 6.5-7.0 lb bare rifle weight rifle in any terrain condition out there. And when the time comes to take a 400-500-600 yard shot in field conditions, success is much easier with 6.5-7.0 lb rifle….

Listened to literally hundreds of hunters say they love their UL rifles but they just dont shoot well past 300-400 yards or miss in field conditons….. often not the rifles fault, most often ours when shooting in field conditions with such light rifles.

Probably ruffle some feathers with this one but just my honest experience of working with shooters and hunters for over two decades and seeing what does and does not work well.

I had one of your rifles that would fit your UL Stalker description. 270 WSM that was indeed a half MOA half mile rifle. It's one I still kick myself for selling. My experience matches your experience with the shootability of true UL rifles. I currently have two light weights coming that should come out at 8lb in a 22 Creedmore and 8.5 lbs in a 300 WSM, scoped. Both on Manners UC plus stocks, a Defiance Anti XM with 25" fluted Bartlien 3b barrel and muzzle brake for the 300 and a Pierce Shadow SA and 24" ACE 2b barrel on the 22. Both with Hawkins UL scope mounts and March 2.5-25X42 scopes. I've found rifles in this range to be very comfortable to hunt with in the rugged high country of western Colorado, and capable of this level of accuracy. The 4 true UL rifles I've had were good to 500 yards when I was calm and very well set up. I can't tell the difference in weight even when hunting above timberline off trail in the high peaks, but I see the difference in shooting well with the slight increase in weight.

 

[K.E.C. Darkside]

Lite Weight Scope. March
Nuff Said