Learing to shoot light rifles.

[Rosebud]

Northerngos in post #35 is spot on with his assessment. Try a bi pod. These little rifles are twitchy. Pod and stable tear bag will help off the bench. One MOA or 1.5 moa out of these in field conditions is ok for most hunting scenarios.

 

[ducky]

Ducky, you need to go back and edit your original post #1. You wrote "Advertised weight for this rifle is 7 lbs 4 oz, but it weighs 7 lbs 10.6 oz on my scale. "

Well that's a screw up I can't fix! I can no longer edit the post. I should proofread better before posting.

I know I'm the issue with this rifle. I'm out shooting right now and just decided to shoot suppressed with the GMM. Anyway it's behaving better.

It's kind of hard to find anyone else to shoot my rifle. I'm basically shooting out my back door. I forgot to mention I'm trying out a new rest.

Just don't hate me too much.

 

[thrownsmoke14]

Have you tried to tune the barrel by either adjusting the seating depth of the projectile in the cartridge or by putting an adjustable barrel tuner on the muzzle? I would suggest finding the bullet/ammo that you want to use for your application, and then adjusting your seating depth to find the best. I have taken rifles that people would say "won't shoot," and simply found the seating depth that the barrel liked of the factory ammo that they were using to have them shoot sub MOA. Obviously not all guns will, but most will.

 

[Gen. Patton]

Just a little backstory, in September of 2015 I had an accident that left me with a fused right ankle.

This has left me with some mobility issues especially on steep or uneven terrain. My ankle just doesn't flex, and my right leg isn't as strong as it used to be. So I'm working on myself to get lighter, as well as my gear as I want to be able to hunt further into wilderness areas.

So for my rifle after handling a few, base weight and ultimately price played a huge factor. The Howa Superlite won out over the CA Mesa and Ridgeline FFT rifles. Advertised weight for this rifle is 7 lbs 4 oz, but it weighs 7 lbs 10.6 oz on my scale. I bought it chambered in .308 Win as I'll give it a slight advantage over the 6.5 Creedmoor in versatility at the 400 +/- yards I expect to use this rifle out to.

I manged to keep the total weight to 7 lbs 7.1 oz with Athlon Helos BTR Gen2 4-20X50 MIL and Omega 300 suppressor.

I sighted it in with some cheap PPU 150gr SP ammunition that I have, and used it to do barrel break in per Howa's instructions. Then switched to some Hornady and Winchester 150 gr ammunition. I couldn't get the rifle to group better than 2 MOA for three shots, both of these shoot right at MOA in my M700 and my Daughter's Howa 1500. Adding the suppressor just had the same ammunition shooting 4-8 MOA at 100 yards.

So I started asking for help. Mainly asking if anyone knew the torque values as I had mine pretty light due to the polymer magazine well and no other information in the manual except "tight". I also got a few other suggestions on shooting technique and ammunition. I also got scolded for having my sling swivels still attached.

So I got some Federal GMM 168 grain ammunition. Torqued the front screw to 35 in-lbs, and the rear to 30 in-lbs per LSI recommended specs. Removed the sling swivels and went shooting.

Well the rifle didn't shoot smaller 3 shot groups with the Fed GMM. It did however, shoot more consistent stacking the second 3 shot group almost identical to the first. So I decided to adjust my scope .6 MIL right and up and shoot the next 3 shot group.

I was really disappointed when the scope didn't move correctly. I've been really impressed with the Athlon scopes I tried on my rimfire rifles, but the first roud hitting low and no movement right was not what I expected. I also shot a 10th round single load after the shots 8 and 9 landed close to the elevation I wanted.

So I put my rifle on a diet, by grabbing the NF 3-10X42 SHV off of my M700 .308 Win. This made my weight go down to 6 lbs 3 oz unsuppressed, and 7 lbs 0.9 oz suppressed.

I sighted back in with the PPU ammunition. Shot the Fed GMM and shot one 3 shot group at 1.25 MOA. Then went to the Hornady AW and Winchester ammunition again. I was holding 1.5 MOA groups for three shots, and I thought maybe the barrel is settling in. So I tried shooting suppressed again.

This time the rifle (or I) did much better suppressed. The Winchester ammunition was nothing to write about, 3 MOA was about it for 6 rounds. However, I shot my first almost MOA 3 shot group with the Hornady AW ammunition. I adjusted the scope and shot 3 more shots for another almost MOA group. If I were to overlay both groups I'd probably be closer to 2 MOA, but thats a huge improvement over the previous groups suppressed with both ammunition types.

I think I'll eventually have this rifle shooting the way I want, 1.5 MOA or better from field positions. I'm just not sure where to go next. Do I shoot it more and see if I get better, or find a factory load it likes? Or since it is still a bone stock rifle do I pillar it, bed the action, and free float the barrel?

1. Checking the barrel to stock clearance is simple: run a dollar bill in between them, and it should meet no resistance until it hits the chamber area.
2. To tighten up groups, get that Trigger to around 2 lb.

 

[doctorjj]

1. Checking the barrel to stock clearance is simple: run a dollar bill in between them, and it should meet no resistance until it hits the chamber area.
2. To tighten up groups, get that Trigger to around 2 lb.

You need well more than a dollar bill. A bill is about 5-7 thousandths. For more flexible barrels, I prefer 0.030-0.040

 

[ridgewalker]

Well that's a screw up I can't fix! I can no longer edit the post. I should proofread better before posting.

I know I'm the issue with this rifle. I'm out shooting right now and just decided to shoot suppressed with the GMM. Anyway it's behaving better. View attachment 459349

It's kind of hard to find anyone else to shoot my rifle. I'm basically shooting out my back door. I forgot to mention I'm trying out a new rest.

View attachment 459351


View attachment 459352

Just don't hate me too much.

Oh am I envious of your convenient range!

 

[Allen Lone wolf]

Looks like you are getting there with practice! Lots of good suggestions. I usually would fully float the barrel, shoot. Look for improvements. Bed the action. Shoot. I personally want a 1.5 lb. Trigger but that's not for everyone. Check the crown on the muzzle for imperfections, if the barrel isn't crowned consider it. Some rifles are sensitive to bullet jump a little time with a bullet comparator can sometimes do wonders. Just did the comparator of my 6.5prc 110 Savage High Country after adjusting the inch pounds on my action screws. It took my groups from .75 at my best down to .280 @100yds. Yes its a heavy gun but those principles work on light rifles to. Sometimes you get a unicorn like my Savage model 11 lightweight hunter 6.5 creedmoor that shot bugholes out of the box topped with a Z6 Swarovski 5x30 shooting factory Hornady 129gr.sst. you'll get there brother just hang in there!

 

[greenejc]

It was a pretty traumatic experience and could have been much worse. I fell from about 20 feet and it was life changing to say the least. Worst thing was this happened a week before an elk hunt I burned 15 points on. Luckily it was before Colorado changed the rules and I was able to get my points back.

View attachment 459278View attachment 459279View attachment 459280View attachment 459281

I'm pretty sure I'm 75% the cause of my issues with this rifle. If I can get it to shoot with the suppressor I'll be happy. I really don't want to use a muzzle brake, as the suppressor greatly changes how the rifle acts at the bench. I know a brake would fix most of my issues, I'm just not fond of them.

This isn't my first time with a light rifle. I have a 7.5 lbs M70 .30-06 with a 2.5-8X36 VX3 in Talley light weights, and I've never been better than 1.25-1.5 MOA with it as well. I found a SS M70 Classic barreled action, and then picked up a used McMillan Hunters Edge stock and had it pillar and glass bedded by Kevin Weaver. It's a joy to hunt with, but abusive from the bench. Especially when I shoot 180 grain + bullets.

Unless you reload, you probably won't get much better than 1.25 to 1.5 moa out of a light barrelled rifle. I have a Ruger M77MKII in 30-06 that is stock except for a Timney trigger, and it will only get about that from factory loads. I can get it down to about .8" to 1" with hand loads (5 shot groups), The barrel is about 0.550 across the flat at the muzzle and is 22" long, so it is 'whippy'. You might get your groups to tighten up if you put in an after market trigger, but if your trigger is at 3.5 lbs and little or no creep or over travel, probably not, since you might not want too light a trigger on a hunting rifle you're planning to carry a lot. By the way, I use mostly 180 grain to 200 grain bullets in it, and it will beat me up on the bench just like your -06 does you. When I got loads down to 1" in this rifle, I checked the same loads in a 1903A3 and got about .75" averages for 5 shots at 100 yards, and that's good enough for me from a standard or light barrelled rifle. I don't expect varminter accuracy from a light rifle. Try some reloads in your .308 using RL15 if you can find it, and either Winchester, CCI or Remington LR primers. Use Sierra or Speer 165 boat tail or flat base bullets, and see what that does for you out to 400 yards. Try both types of bullet, because you're after accuracy, and the differences in drop at 400 yards is negligible. As to the suppressor, do you need it where you're going to hunt? If you don't, I wouldn't sweat it.

 

[greenejc]

For recoil with your light rifle, one thing you might try is to raise your shooting position so that you're sitting as straight as possible, rather than leaning forward. That way the rifle is pushing your weight back and slightly down instead of back and up. Felt recoil will be noticeably less because your posture is closer to a standing posture, allowing your body more give during recoil. I shoot a 35 Whelen with 250 grain bullets and a MV of 2670fps, and if I am hunched over, it will kick the snot out of me at the bench, but is noticeably more manageable if I have the rifle rested high enough to let me sit straight.

 

[greenejc]

That happened September 29, 2015 and had the fixator removed the last week of December 2015. I was able to return to work September 16, 2016. To say it was a rough year was an understatement. I had just changed jobs and my disability insurance hadn't kicked in yet.

We were blessd to be able to survive of savings for most of that year, as my wife wasn't able to work either due to having to run me around to medical and thearpy appointments. She was able to finally start an administrative job with the Junior College in June of 16, and I worked part time at Wal-Mart starting July of 16 until I could get released back to work at BNSF.

I know exactly what you're talking about. I'm US Army retired and had to have both knees replaced, one in 2016 and the other in 2017. 20 years in the Infantry and several years contracting both in the States and the Mid-East had all the cartilage in both knees pretty much destroyed. Each knee required a year of Physical Therapy. I still went elk hunting both years, though. Fortunately (by God's Grace) the Army and VA paid for both knees and because of my veteran's and retiree's status, I got compensation to live on while recovering. I just finished having reconstructive surgery on my right foot to correct issues due to damage from my military service this January.

 

[scrmblr1982cj8]

Scrambler, I was the product manager for the gamma 2 and gamma 3 IM nail system and later the Feild Marketing Director for the Inter Tan Hip Fracture system. Spent my adult life in surgeries with Ortho Surgeons, Ortho Residents and PA,s. It was a wonderful 30 years in Ortho Trauma. Perhaps we were even at the same national OTA meetings or AAOS conventions????

I never attended the OTA or the AAOS conventions. I attend the Orthopaedic administrator's conferences.

 

[JustMe2]

Ducky, light rifle foreends will jump up off your rest or a bipod during firing causing larger groups. Try holding the foreend down lightly onto your rest with your free hand so it doesn't jump up as violently during recoil. I prefer grasping the bottom of the forearm behind the rest like you'd hold it during hunting rather than placing my hand on top of the barrel infront of the scope. I'm afraid placing my hand on top of the barrel may change the harmonics and that's not how you'd hold a rifle while hunting.

Also be careful your front sling stud is not recoiling into your rest and the rear sling stud is not contacting the rear bag. This will also cause larger groups from the heavy recoil of a light rifle.

 

[greenejc]

Scrambler, I was the product manager for the gamma 2 and gamma 3 IM nail system and later the Feild Marketing Director for the Inter Tan Hip Fracture system. Spent my adult life in surgeries with Ortho Surgeons, Ortho Residents and PA,s. It was a wonderful 30 years in Ortho Trauma. Perhaps we were even at the same national OTA meetings or AAOS conventions????

You guys did a lot of both research and application that helped both me and a lot of my buddies who were wounded and damaged in training and combat. There a numerous of us who can walk around and have use of limbs who wouldn't (including me) if you hadn't done the work you have and we all salute you. May God bless and Keep you.

 

[greenejc]

Well that's a screw up I can't fix! I can no longer edit the post. I should proofread better before posting.

I know I'm the issue with this rifle. I'm out shooting right now and just decided to shoot suppressed with the GMM. Anyway it's behaving better. View attachment 459349

It's kind of hard to find anyone else to shoot my rifle. I'm basically shooting out my back door. I forgot to mention I'm trying out a new rest.

View attachment 459351


View attachment 459352

Just don't hate me too much.

I do hate you. I have to go to a ranch near Calhan to do that. I live in Falcon just outside of Colorado Springs. I really don't mind going out to the ranch though, since I get to shoot prairie dogs out there, and its really good practice. I have a question about that stock. Does the forend have stiffening and gaps in the interior under the barrel? I had a stock on my Remington 308 like that, and I had to change stocks so that it didn't flex upward and touch the barrel when on a bipod or a rest. I know this is sacrilege, but you might look at getting a laminated wood stock for it, and glass bedding that. It will add a few ounces of weight but won't warp with humidity, and will be stiff enough to not change impact due to flexing. By the way, 1.5" groups aren't bad for factory ammo from a light rifle. Get someone to reload that brass with a Sierra Gameking in 165 grains with RL15 or IMR 4064 and the same OL length and try that.