Learing to shoot light rifles.

[Northerngos]

Lots of interesting suggestions here that I haven't tried with mine, looking forward to testing them out. One thing to consider, if you want to eliminate barrel temp as a variable, petco or similar pet stores sell a little infrared temp reader. they are cheap, and the one I bought is very accurate. They are about the size of a AA battery. Taking an actual temp of the barrel between shots ensures cooling to true "first shot" temp, or second shot temp or whatever (rather than doing what I used to do which is touching the barrel and going by when it feels pretty cool) If "first shot temp" and "second shot temp" etc shots are grouped well within their particular temps that would be good info. If the groups at a particular temp range open up that might be solid info that when warm, the harmonics have changed due to a contact point etc.

 

[greenejc]

Thanks for the info on Timney. However, I'm not worried about the trigger. I don't have any issues with the factory trigger and it can be adjusted.

I understand how the factory guarantees work. That's why I want to stack at least three groups of three shots in 1.5 MOA before I mess with bedding or triggers. One sub MOA group means nothing.

I believe the rifle is capable, me on the other hand is a different story. So far I can't get close to anything close to 1.5 MOA unsuppressed. Suppressed I'm getting close.

I've been letting the barrel cool to the touch between groups.

Are you at La Junta now, or still near the Springs? We could try some hand loads in your rifle and see how that works. I reload for the .308 and have access to a 600 yard range. I have lots of brass, bullets and powders suitable.

 

[ducky]

I live about 20 minutes NE of La Junta now. I really appreciate the offer, but my schedule is unknown. I work 100% on call, with no scheduled days off or "no call" hours. So unless I take PTO or Vacation I'm pretty much regulated to what I can do within 60 miles of Lajunta as I get a two hour call.

I also have the ability to reload, just with my unpredictable schedule it's hard. Often times I can't give reloading the focus it needs so I don't screw up. So I tend to load only for my rifles that there is little or no factory ammunition for.

 

[AZ82New]

Thanks for the info on Timney. However, I'm not worried about the trigger. I don't have any issues with the factory trigger and it can be adjusted.

I understand how the factory guarantees work. That's why I want to stack at least three groups of three shots in 1.5 MOA before I mess with bedding or triggers. One sub MOA group means nothing.

I believe the rifle is capable, me on the other hand is a different story. So far I can't get close to anything close to 1.5 MOA unsuppressed. Suppressed I'm getting close.

I've been letting the barrel cool to the touch between groups.

I bet the weight of that suppressor is stabilizing the recoil impulse. Added benefit in that the barrel harmonics are getting tamped down too.

Sounds like the barrel being so thin is your culprit more than your shooting ability with that rifle.

 

[AZ82New]

I have an EC tuner, it works. I don't find that it takes a 2 inch group to a half inch group with a few turns. It will take a 5/8 group to a 3/8 though…..

 

[AZ82New]

The best solution to needing a light rifle but not losing your sanity trying to get it to shoot is to go with a carbon barrel. They work extremely well.

If this rifle doesn't work out, see if you can return it and pick up a savage 110 with the prof barrel on it. I have t tried one but I bet it would be MUCH easier to work with.

Some people have talked trash on the proof barrels. I have one and it's obscenely accurate. Certainly no accuracy issues.

 

[Catskills]

I jumped on the light weight rifle thing a number of years ago and quickly realized they take more effort to shoot to their potential. It's all about holding consistently and trigger control. In a way, they force good fundamentals on you. Even with an excellent trigger, for me it takes more concentration to shoot without impacting point of aim. Similarly, variations in how you hold the rifle are really amplified. Sometimes, free recoil is the answer but more often, it is not. As others have noted, firmly gripping the stock seems to provide the best accuracy. Surprisingly, shooting on a Benchmaster or Lead Sled rest has not demonstrated the best accuracy…. I'm still not sure why.
Slim barrels create their own set of problems. As others have noted, barrel heat really tends to make point of impact climb quickly. I suspect this is particularly the case with rifles relying on a pressure point at the end of the stock. Because my default is to free float, I'm not dealing with fore end pressure problems.

Out to 400yds or so, I've found I can shoot lighter rifles well enough for big game hunting in field positions. Having said that, for longer ranges, I'm more confident in rifles a couple pounds heavier. Indeed, after a string of string of 6 light weight rifles, my last purchase was a more traditional weight rifle that is a couple pounds heavier.….

 

[ducky]

I bet the weight of that suppressor is stabilizing the recoil impulse. Added benefit in that the barrel harmonics are getting tamped down too.

A suppressor is nothing more than a muzzle brake inside a can. It slows down, redirects, and cools escaping gasses. A 7 lbs rifle is still pretty light but it changes the recoil to something similar to my 7 lbs 8 oz 6mm Creedmoor.

If this rifle doesn't work out, see if you can return it and pick up a savage 110 with the prof barrel on it. I have t tried one but I bet it would be MUCH easier to work with.

The Savage is a at least full pound heavier, that coupled with the scopes I wanted to use puts me back to 8 lbs suppressed. My goal was to be as light or lighter suppressed than rifles I already own. I have a 7 lbs 3 oz .30-06, 7 lbs 8 oz 6mm Creedmoor, and 7 lbs 14 oz .270 Win. I shoot the Creedmoor and .270 very well without a suppressor or brake, so they are my baseline.

 

[MtPockets]

I have a 7 lbs 3 oz .30-06, 7 lbs 8 oz 6mm Creedmoor, and 7 lbs 14 oz .270 Win. I shoot the Creedmoor and .270 very well without a suppressor or brake, so they are my baseline.

If you shoot those rifles well my guess is the rifle is the problem, not you.

 

[VaWhiteTailHunter76]

Yes, factory rail. My only other option for mounts is through Talley. The Superlite action is not the same size as a standard 1500 SA. There is about a .25" difference in screw spacing and the diameter of the reciever and bolt is reduced. Think Model 7 vs. 700 Remington.


Not enough to be called truly free floated, and there is some flex in the forend. I try to make sure I have the bag just ahead of the front screw before each shot. I also find my groups shrink if I bench the rifle like Mark Bansner suggests at about 8 minutes into this video.

I'm using a front bag similar to a Caldwell Deadshot and my rear bag is from the Deadshot. I quit wrapping my thumb a few years ago, when I read a few articles about how it causes groups to open by torque on the stock being introduced. However, I tried shooting this rifle a few different ways. I also realize my sample size of 9 total rounds in 3 groups is to small to prove anything definitive.


1- Forend hold, thumb wrapped around grip. 2.63 MOA, group area 1.85" wide 2.55" high, 1.22 MOA mean radius, POI/POA 1.01 right 2.53" low.

2- Forend hold, no thumb. 2.3 MOA, group area 1.58" wide 1.82" high, 0.97 MOA mean radius, POI/POA 2.41" right .77" high.

3- Bansner Method. 1.5 MOA, group area 1.41" wide 1.38" high, .78 MOA mean radius, POI/POA 2.18" right 1.16 low.

Without the suppressor or a brake free recoil isn't an option.

I think this is the video you meant to link ......... your current link is to a video on Lee & Redding beam scales. LOL

 

[JustMe2]

As others have noted, firmly gripping the stock seems to provide the best accuracy. Surprisingly, shooting on a Benchmaster or Lead Sled rest has not demonstrated the best accuracy…. I'm still not sure why.

You answered your own question. The reason a LeadSled is not accurate with a light rifle is because that heavy recoil from a light rifle has to go somewhere. Since a LeadSled prevents the recoil energy from going rearward, it forces the energy to be dissipated upward so the foreend jumps up. That's why you have to hold the foreend down on a light rifle - to keep it from jumping upward and ruining group size. It's better to allow a rifle to recoil semi-freely so the rifle moves straight aft and not up. In other words, shoot a light rifle off bags or standing off a loose fitting saddle tripod so your body absorbs the recoil straight back.

 

[ducky]

If you shoot those rifles well my guess is the rifle is the problem, not you.

I shoot the .270 and 6mm Creedmoor well, the .30-06 is a lot of work to keep under 1.5 MOA.

I think this is the video you meant to link ......... your current link is to a video on Lee & Redding beam scales. LOL

That's the video.

 

[ridgewalker]

Ducky, just some examples of what a light weight skinny barrel (Kimber Montana 243) can do with the right loads and proper technique. Keep it up! You can figure it out I'm sure!

 

[Catskills]

You answered your own question. The reason a LeadSled is not accurate with a light rifle is because that heavy recoil from a light rifle has to go somewhere. Since a LeadSled prevents the recoil energy from going rearward, it forces the energy to be dissipated upward so the foreend jumps up. That's why you have to hold the foreend down on a light rifle - to keep it from jumping upward and ruining group size. It's better to allow a rifle to recoil semi-freely so the rifle moves straight aft and not up. In other words, shoot a light rifle off bags or standing off a loose fitting saddle tripod so your body absorbs the recoil straight back.

I'm not sure I agree. I believe it's consistency that matters most. If you could put identical pressure on the rifle every shot from shoulder, to grip pressure, I don't believe accuracy should be impacted, whether on a traditional rest or the Benchmaster that I use. Unless there is something at play I don't understand, muzzle jump with identical holds should provide consistent accuracy regardless of the method used. I've been puzzled because this has not been my experience with really light rifles (<6lbs).
For shot to shot consistency when testing loads, I prefer the Benchmaster for light rifles (<7.5lbs) or heavy recoiling cartridges 340wby/300wby/7STW. Of course, I always do my final sight in from bags because the Benchmaster will cause impact to be 1 to 11/2" lower.