Lead sled vs sandbags accuracy issues

[MtPockets]

Very good advice, especially from JE.
I think the op is on the right track with verifying what the rifle will do with a sled. The problem is to duplicate the results when NOT using a sled. That can be very difficult-sometimes about impossible, but it does give us something to strive for.
Assuming it's a hunting gun, put a good leather sling on it. Wrap it around your arm and use it to put good consistant pressure on the rifle.
The key is consistency.
I had an old timer tell me that even when I shot off bags to put my hand between the forearm and the front bag. He said that the bag will absorb the vibrations of the gun differently than my hand will and could affect accuracy.
I'd imagine it'd be the same from the sled to the bags.

 

[Cleveland48]

I used a lead slead for the last five or six years for developing handloads. I have no issues with it, but just recently I decided I wanted to be more involved than just sitting the rifle in the slead and pulling the trigger. I got the Caldwell rock front rest and a set of rear bags. Could not be happier. I did notice it took some getting used to after mainly using the sled for so long.

 

[Engineering101]

NV

Typically when you find a node where the ammo you have loaded shoots tighter like your .6 to 1" groups you have created a tuned system. If you change anything in the rifle, rest, shooter or ammo the system can become untuned and spray the shots. To get it to shoot "good" again you have to retune it. So... you may not want to use the same load that you were using with the lead sled when you aren't using the lead sled. Develop a new load for use off bags. You may be able to shoot better than you think with such a load.

 

[Nvhunter92]

NV

Typically when you find a node where the ammo you have loaded shoots tighter like your .6 to 1" groups you have created a tuned system. If you change anything in the rifle, rest, shooter or ammo the system can become untuned and spray the shots. To get it to shoot "good" again you have to retune it. So... you may not want to use the same load that you were using with the lead sled when you aren't using the lead sled. Develop a new load for use off bags. You may be able to shoot better than you think with such a load.

Thanks for your reply. Why would changing a rest affect the accuracy potential of a certain load? I'm still pretty new to this so I want to understand more about it. When I originally got the gun I shot 5 different boxes of factory ammo with different bullet weights off of bags and none of them consistently grouped under 1.5", I think that is why I think the problem is more with myself than the gun or load. Everyone talks about how accurate tikkas are for a production rifle but I'm having a hard time shooting it. I'm starting to think that because it is a light gun it is very particular in how it needs to be held...

 

[Zerk]

I bought a lead sled, for checking out loads. Whether on a bag or sled, you are putting your shoulder in it, just the weigth slows it a little.

What I like about the sled is craddles the back of the gun too, as opposed to just a sand bag in the front, a V in the front.

It is also nice when doing lots of shooting of 30-06/

There are also bags that craddle pack too.


What I don't like, is it is hard to adjust. Push the sled a little one way and moves alot. So you are still holding under tension to keep on target. Would also like to be able to lock it into the cradle.

 

[Engineering101]

NV

Factory ammo will usually not shoot as good as handloads and some factory ammo can be really bad so I wouldn't conclude that it is you that needs fixing - though that might be true. I don't know how to say it any different than what I already said. You have tuned your load to work with the lead sled. Take the lead sled away and the tuning goes away too. And while it is true that a heavier gun has an advantage when you go to shoot it, light weight hunting rifles can shoot lights out. So... were I you I would first tweak your load a little up and down to see if that won't get it back on a node with you NOT using the lead sled. I've got a buddy who has several Tikkas and they all shoot good BUT he had to put in the time in load development to make that happen. Just so happens he uses a lead sled for a lot of the work but does final tuning using field rests for all the reasons than have been talked about in this thread.

 

[J E Custom]

What I don't like, is it is hard to adjust. Push the sled a little one way and moves alot. So you are still holding under tension to keep on target. Would also like to be able to lock it into the cradle.

I use this one for that reason. It will adjust vertical, horizontal and the length of the front rest adjust to best fit your stock.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/452933/caldwell-lead-sled-dft-2-rifle-shooting-rest

there are several models that don't have these features. also this model is longer for the big long range rifles so it will balance the rifle better.

J E CUSTOM

 

[sumonda]

Great thread, I was wondering the same myself. I have considered adding a foam buffer behind the butt pad to lessen the jarring deceleration when using a sled.

 

[Mike 338]

I've tampered quite a bit with my "shooting technique" off the bench. For me, it does make a difference how I hold the gun, how I rest my cheek, how much I draw the gun to me and how much I push my shoulder/body mass into the stock. I've even experimented with how much tension I give my shoulder pocket muscle. I noticed bench rest guys being real particular about how the rifle recoils on their bags. They even use talc powder on the bags to smooth it out. That tells me that what the rifle does after the shot is fired affects accuracy. Light rifles really magnify how the shooter interacts with the rifle through recoil. When shooting for accuracy, I have a little check list in my head for how settle into the gun. Sometimes I forget and catch myself breaking form.

 

[Rich Coyle]

I feel like benchrest shooting does have a place in hunting rifles and I don't think I'm "tricking" the gun into doing anything. I think that by using a lead sled I'm eliminating myself from the equation as much as I can to test my rifle and my handloads. If I can shoot .7" groups from a lead sled then I know the rifle and load is capable of doing so regardless of shooting position...it tells me that the difference between my .7" groups from the lead sled and my 1.5" groups from sand bags has something to do with me and my form. I agree that if a guy only shot his hunting rifle from a bench and sand bags then threw a bipod on and went hunting without testing his gear it would provide sub par results. I know what my gun is capable of, I want to better my shooting form (or whatever it may be) so I can close the gap between what my rifle is capable of and what I'm capable of.

I once ran a test with an accurate Savage .223. I fired ten shots from the bench at 200 yards with the best form I could muster. The group measured .870". Then I held the rifle more like I would if I was shooting from a field position. To my chagrin the group opened up to 2" for ten shots. That was about twenty years ago. I think I'm better now, but wont test myself. Ignorant prejudice is my friend.

 

[Rich Coyle]

When shooting for accuracy, I have a little check list in my head for how settle into the gun. Sometimes I forget and catch myself breaking form.

I can relate. Yesterday I noticed I was getting the reticle on, then checking the level, then the flag, then the level, then was the reticle still on. As I squeeze the trigger my left eye still watches the flag.

 

[fisherman983]

Dry fire your rifle on your bags. Try to have consistent trigger squeeze, cheek weld follow through. Don't pick your head up off the stock for a few seconds after recoil.
When dry firing, watch your reticle and see how much it moves. Try different amounts of grip tension and different hand positions until you feel comfortable and can see your reticle stay on the bullseye. Also, you may need to lighten your trigger pull weight. Light rifles are difficult to shoot well if you don't have great forl and follow through.
Watch YouTube videos on proper form and technique.
I have little experience compared to many of the guys on this forum but I had a lead sled at one point early in my shooting years and the second I put it in the garbage and started using just sand bags my shooting improved tremendously. Just a few things that helped me out.

 

[J E Custom]

Everyone has a bad day at the range and the lead sled minimizes these days. I feel like the rifle will do its part if I do, and with confidence in the rifle, I don't worry about a bad shot in the field. I just try to find the most stable rest i can and make the shot.

When I make the perfect shot, (Hit is exactly where I aimed), I feel good and like I did not let the rifle down. Confidence in your rifles ability and yours, Is the main goal and however you get it is what matters not what type of rest you use.

Just My opinion

J E CUSTOM