RAGGED EDGE
Well-Known Member
If somebody did a primer test in a 300 Win Mag. using a rod in the bore, and measuring the amount of travel, I'd personally put this issue to bed for good.
Large rifle primers
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MagnumManiac
Well-Known Member
This depends on chamber dimensions.
My cartridge in question has a longer neck and .005" taper per inch. It mirrors an AI with slightly less body taper, typical AI designs have .010" taper per inch.
Seeing as though my chamber holds the flame front inside the case longer, it is very efficient and produces high velocities at lower pressures than my previous attempt that had more taper per inch and the shoulder was back a bit more.
A magnum primer just isn't necessary even with 121gr of ball powder.
I have pressure testing equipment, so I am not guessing here, start pressure is high, which gives gentler rise to max pressure and a hot primer changes this fact too much. Without testing this, you just would never know.
Have said this before, a magnum primer is NOT necessary to ignite large amounts of powder….it was designed and asked for by Roy Weatherby to dampen the hangfires he was getting when designing and playing with REDUCED loads in the 378 Weatherby.
Cheers.
Lefty7mmstw
Well-Known Member
A lot of this depends on temperature. I've had delayed ignition a few times with certain powders. Magpro for instance got tossed on the lawn for me years ago. I'll continue to use magnum primers in anything over 60 grains or so and when loading harder to ignite powder. I sometimes hunt in below zero conditions. I'm not trusting a CCi 200 to light 110 grains of wc872 or h50bmg out of a rum in sub zero conditions. The load is getting a 215 or wlrm. period. I've run pressure trace on a couple of barrels and the magnum primers didn't hurt either.
Hugnot
Well-Known Member
Some academics did a primer test some time ago using high-speed pressure transducers.
Of those tested, shows Fed 215's had strongest blast pressure, CCI 200 the least. Pressures were measured in kilo Pascals (kP's). Small primers were also tested. Pressure data, as shown on graphs, have similar shapes indicating impulse proportional to peak pressure(s).
I happened upon a brick of Fed 215's at Scheels months ago for less than $90 & have been using the 215's with ball powders from .22-.250 up.
Rem 7 1/2's, SRP's, reliably set off 40 grain plus charges of ball powder like StaBall in 6.5 CM. I just bought a brick of 7 1/2's for $77.
If a robin, that was hunting worms on some lawn, ingested gun powder would the robin suffer cardiac arrest (heart attack)?
Of those tested, shows Fed 215's had strongest blast pressure, CCI 200 the least. Pressures were measured in kilo Pascals (kP's). Small primers were also tested. Pressure data, as shown on graphs, have similar shapes indicating impulse proportional to peak pressure(s).
I happened upon a brick of Fed 215's at Scheels months ago for less than $90 & have been using the 215's with ball powders from .22-.250 up.
Rem 7 1/2's, SRP's, reliably set off 40 grain plus charges of ball powder like StaBall in 6.5 CM. I just bought a brick of 7 1/2's for $77.
If a robin, that was hunting worms on some lawn, ingested gun powder would the robin suffer cardiac arrest (heart attack)?
Culpeper
Well-Known Member
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I've tried almost all LR primers and didn't see any material differences across several different cartridges. Like getting lost in the noise between one batch of reloads with another. One would have to have a consistent sterile environment and methodology to make an accurate claim. There are just too many variables at play.
There are a lot of variables to consider before you can say which one is best load volume being the biggest one burn rate is another that being said federal seems to work very well in most of my load. Regular for 60 grains and less and magnum for greater than 60 grains generally speaking
Txcowboy50
Well-Known Member
I found that certain primers work better with certain powders. I load a lot of H1000 and CCI BR2 work better than Fed 210. With Ramshot Magnum and MagPro I see no difference. (60 grs or less)
RAGGED EDGE
Well-Known Member
This needs to be broadened and updated, but I can't think of a worse time than the present for such an undertaking.
Mike Matteson
Well-Known Member
Thanks, Got it downloaded. Printed it and highlighting areas now. Interesting. You hae to test different primes to see what you got. Seem to me I heard this before.
This test was done as part of a research project done by cadets at the AF Academy. It was peer reviewed and reviewed by industry professionals.
I too wish it could be expanded and updated.
Lefty7mmstw
Well-Known Member
there's enough Malathion on my lawn to control skeeters that I doubt a bird could find a worm on my front lawn...
MagnumManiac
Well-Known Member
I also run a Pressure Trace II, however I use raw data achieved to map what pressure I run.
According to my data, using a standard primer shows a gentle start pressure even with large amounts of powder. This makes the rise to max pressure more consistent and less violent. The same can be done using a magnum primer in a non-magnum cartridge, which I have done regularly to have have a higher start pressure to tune a load for more accuracy.
I have never believed that a magnum primer is necessary for powder amounts of 60gr or more.
Prior to magnum primers being made, many big bore cartridges used the same primers as small bore, so it simply isn't true that they are required for large amounts of powder.
In fact, a Berdan primer is far superior for start pressure consistency. The reasons are many and quite complex, but it has been proven to be far more accurate across the board than a Boxer primer system.
I agree with you regarding the use of hitter primers in sub zero temps, but they're not necessary in normal temps.
My Pressure Trace has always shown that Winchester primers were the hottest. Federal were very close, but their match primers were more consistent with start pressure. Another thing it showed was that CCI. match primers, both small and large, were no different to the equivalent standard marked primers and this is when I stopped using them.
Cheers.
Mike Matteson
Well-Known Member
I have some 215, but didn't get anything out of them. Lost grouping. So I went back 210 primers. I also felt 210M were a little hotter than 210 primers. Velocity changed some. It's been so long ago. I just stuck with the Fed 210 primers for years. That what group the best for me with my reloads. I have said it before once a load is develop I stay with it. I don't change to litter or heavier bullets. If the groups in the 1/2" range @ 100yds.
With all the new info I have gained here, it's a little different story.
The hardest has been is the primers, in acquiring different manufacture primers.
With all the new info I have gained here, it's a little different story.
The hardest has been is the primers, in acquiring different manufacture primers.
