Kimber Montana .30-06

[kimba]

so there is a pressure point at end of stock as it should have. The bedding of the barrel near action seems about right. Now you need to take it out, put blueing on action and then put it back in to shoot it and see where the action actually is bedded well to action. The idea is to see contact points between action and barrel to stock. Rub marks mean contact - clean means no contact. Thus you can asses ( love that word - hooked on phonics worked for me) the bedding job

 

[RichJD13]

Kimba, your reply seems to directly contradict what Sable said. Unless I've missread something. Can you please clarify?

I was thinking that because I have a thin barrel the contact point might exist to support the barrel under recoil and control some of the "whip." Your reply confirms that, at least how I read it, and sable's reply seems to contradict that.

Would it be better to either completely free float the barrel or completely bed the barrel under the stock rather than have a small contact point?

 

[RichJD13]

This guy seems like he knows what he's talking about. What do y'all think?

Kimber Montana bedding - The Firing Line Forums

 

[kimba]

AS I said before the pencil barrels usually shoot well with the pressure point - not always but most of the time.

Conventional , modern thinking is all needs to be free floated and folks take that and run with it without testing it. Most heavy barrels do do better free floated and so folks assume that is how all barrels shoot as that is all they ever read about - kind of like" x fps second loss per each inch a barrel is shortened ( a thing proven not to be true depending upon burn rate of powders). There is no set rule and experimentation is required.

If as stock is fairly rigid and the barrel is a pencil, it often shoots better with that pressure point. Due to the crappy stocks being often shipped with factory guns ( too much flex), many light barrels may actually shoot better with free float.
Folks with remcrap factory stocks or Tupperware sav,tika, ... have free floated pencil barrels and seen improvement. Smiths often do same thing and just float it as it is the easy way. Most high end stocks are used by folks with heavier weight barrels as if they are willing to invest in a $700 stock, they usually also invest in an other than pencil weight barrel as they like to shoot a bunch and do not want to deal with fast heating of pencil barrels at range - and heavier barrels just shoot better in terms of accuracy all quality things being equal. Thus the " all barrels need to be free floated myth gets ingrained.
You gotta shoot it to tell and look for shot stringing as it heats up. YOu can remove it and test - if it shoots worse, just build the pressure point back with epoxy.

 

[Woodbutchertoo]

I've owned two Montanas. A 300 WSM and the gun I kept, a 270 WSM. Both were easy to get incredible accuracy out of. Both sub-MOA
I do hand load though.
I shoot the 270 WSM toped with a Kahles 4-12x50 SF and Talley single piece bases..........its a truly amazing gun.
It may have been said but check your rings and bases.

Even when I don't let the gun completely cool down at our range, the hot thin barrel doesn't string shots.

I have a lot of synthetic stocked rifles.... Sakos, HS on Remingtons etc...and while the most butt ugly one of them all, the Kimber Kevlar reinforced is as ridged and ergonomic to me as any of them. It also seems to tame recoil well for a six pound gun.

 

[kimba]

Like I said in the beginning of this thread - poor bedding is most likely culprit.

 

[RichJD13]

Woodbutchertoo, are your barrels free floating?

Kimba, that was my initial suspicion too... But being ignorant I wanted some other input. I still think you're correct. Now is it worth $200+ for a professional to do it, or should I attempt to do it myself? Or should I send it to Kimber as tell them to fix this?

 

[Woodbutchertoo]

RichJD13

Yes, both are factory and free floated.
What rings and bases are used with your Swarovski?

 

[RichJD13]

Leupold rings and bases.

 

[lloydsmale]

all of my rifles are free floated. Even light barreled guns. Heres my take on it. Ive floated and bedded every rifle ive ever own other then ones that came pillar bedded already. Even the Winchesters that are factory bedded use a soft bedding compound that isn't much good so I dig it out and rebed the stocks. Ive have had guns shoot substantially better afterward had them shoot about the same afterward but have never seen one shoot worse. Keep in mind im saying that I not only float the barrel but bed the action too.

In my opinion that's a lot of what that pressure point is doing on factory guns and is why they do it. they don't want to spend the money bedding every gun so they leave a pressure point to help keep the barreled action from moving around. I Had a tech at weatherby when I sent back a *** 257 vanguard try to tell me that they use special steel in there barrels that need pressure half way up to shoot. I asked them if they paid extra for that "special steel" that nobody else can get and he didn't know what to say. I told him the truth, that they use a pressure point to save money and he wouldn't denie it. Somehow his special steel barrel had chatter marks all through the rifling. Accuracy would go to #### after only 5 or 6 rounds until you cleaned it. they cleaned it shot a 3 shot group (at 50 fricking yards) or maybe didn't because the target was a photo copy of one not an actual target, that had 3 shots into a bit less then an inch and said that met there accuracy standard for that gun

I hear guys all the time claim that you need this pressure point but ask them if theyd rest there barrel on a gun rest when shooting and they'll laugh at you. Its the same thing. Bottom line is if your gun is bedded properly and it still needs a pressure point its probably a barrel problem and its doubtful if that gun will ever be a tack driver and this doesn't matter if the barrel is as thin as a pencil or as thick as a water pipe. With that pressure point you are going to have a lot more problems with wood stock warpage and even shot groups stringing vertically when the barrel heats up.

 

[RichJD13]

So I sent Kimber the pictures of the dollar bill test. They say that ain't right, so they're going to give me a packing labor and are going to fix the problem. Well, at least they're going to free float the barrel. Hopefully that fixes the problem.

 

[kimba]

easy to do yourself lots of vids online or also from terminal ballistics research site. All you do is rough up existing areas to bed - being careful to leave some spots at orig level in orig condition - are really skim bedding. Tape all areas of stock that might get epoxy on them. fill areas you do not want epoxy to go to with modeling clay. Then take your action and coat it several times with kiwi clear shoe polish. If you want to free float it you sand the stock to give you free float spacing then tape your barrel near end of stock with enough layers of electrical tape to space it as you want it in stock. If you want to keep pressure point near end of stock leave it as is and proceed. Take degreaser or rubbing alcohol to stock where you want bedding to stick. Tape sides and area of recoil lug on action with one layer of electrical tape for ease of action removal and stress free mating. Important - area on lug away from where the recoil lug hits stock nearest action - the area where lug hits action has no tape! Apply more kiwi or release agent to areas you do not want epoxy to stick - include action screw threads for mercy sake Mix epoxy or jb slow cure per instructions and fill with enough to overflow a bit when stock and action put together. Wait a few mins to allow air bubbles to come out if any and then put together. Let it cure till it is just firm enough to clean up overflow off stock with sharp wood or flat edge of some kind - some folks use exacto, but that can mar stock/action if not careful. When cured 24 hrs, remove action and stock. Clean up any overflow and make sure area in front of recoil lug has a little clearance - area on side of lug away from action !! Action may take a bit to get out the first time due to tape and not cleaning of overflow. Methods for removing the two are to grasp stock and rap barrel against lightly padded table or put it into a deep freezer for an hour then repeat - never had to do that myself. Once tape removed from recoil lugs to provide clearance and any overflow cleaned with sand paper, file or dremel, it pops out with little effort.
For that action, google bedding a kimber or bedding a Winchester m70.

It sounds hard but is really easy if you can use hands and brain - just look at SEVERAL vids online. If it still is scary - pay a smith. Now it gets tricky if you do pillars but folks on here saying the pillars are already bedded on these, so no need to do those. It really is something every rifle owner should be able to do at home. Make sure you do not try to use any quick set epoxy as not enough time to do it - esp the first time.

Now here is the gray area - some folks use rubber bands to just lightly secure stock - using action bolts to align it. Others just lightly tighten action screws

 

[lloydsmale]

Id send it in if there willing to do it free. If you do it yourself on an expensive gun like that Kimber might not warrantee it anymore.

 

[kimba]

Heck yes. Send it to them. And re free floating long pencil barrels, do whatever you like if it works for you. Understanding whip in thin barrels wouD help some folks , but whatever works for you- still a free country for a few more years.