Bruce. I've used my highly calibrated finger torque wrench and determined they're pretty close to kimber's 65 in/lb specs. That's a great idea, and I just checked them since my last range outing. They didn't feel loose, but we'll see what that does on my next range trip.
Kimber Montana .30-06
- Thread starter RichJD13
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lloydsmale
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I know this might not be the answer for you but my buddy has a 308 montana and its a very fussy gun too. Shoots most loads into 2 inch give or take .2. He tried about everything. He was over at the house one day and I was loading for my ar10. I was using 4895 and some bulk 150 grain ww power points I bought cheap. I told him to take a handful and try them as my ar10 shot them moa. He came back the next day with a target with 5 of them into 3/4s of an inch. Maybe that bullet is worth a try. Contact me by pm and send me your address and ill send you a few if you want to try them. By the way its also the hands down best shooting bullet in my sps rem 700 o6. Shoots well under an 1 inch for 5 shots all day long. Keep in mind though that there white bullets only. they seem to be as fragile as bts and sierras.
sable tireur
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RichJD13,
I've been busy with other projects due here shortly.
Not letting the barrel touch is a good thought. However, this ultralight stock apparently is playing somewhat of the part of the culprit. I suggest again, starting with the bedding to see that it is stress-free and completely correct. Then I would assess the stock itself for rigidity. Twist it in your hands, compress the fore arm against the barrel, etc. If you can move it, it will move under recoil, especially if your rest if a pack. The sling can also provide added stress by pulling down on the stock then moving under recoil. All things to pay attention to.
Reloading is one of the most rewarding processes you can be involved with in shooting. Not only is it fun but you have the ability to test many more variables that are not available through commercial loads. I will say that there are some commercial loads which are getting immensely better than before but reloading is still the best avenue for great loads.
Go back through the rifle again to assess the bedding, rigidity, trigger and your interaction with the stock when in position to shoot. Watch for all the signs of something moving that shouldn't be moving when testing in the shop. Also remember to check for small chips left in the bedding under the recoil lug. That can make a sane person crazy when looking for problems.
Regards.
I've been busy with other projects due here shortly.
Not letting the barrel touch is a good thought. However, this ultralight stock apparently is playing somewhat of the part of the culprit. I suggest again, starting with the bedding to see that it is stress-free and completely correct. Then I would assess the stock itself for rigidity. Twist it in your hands, compress the fore arm against the barrel, etc. If you can move it, it will move under recoil, especially if your rest if a pack. The sling can also provide added stress by pulling down on the stock then moving under recoil. All things to pay attention to.
Reloading is one of the most rewarding processes you can be involved with in shooting. Not only is it fun but you have the ability to test many more variables that are not available through commercial loads. I will say that there are some commercial loads which are getting immensely better than before but reloading is still the best avenue for great loads.
Go back through the rifle again to assess the bedding, rigidity, trigger and your interaction with the stock when in position to shoot. Watch for all the signs of something moving that shouldn't be moving when testing in the shop. Also remember to check for small chips left in the bedding under the recoil lug. That can make a sane person crazy when looking for problems.
Regards.
Sable. I certainly understand that there are higher priorities in life than responding to an Internet thread, lol.
You sound like you're not thrilled about me using a sling to provide downforce to control recoil. What other options are there? I've experimented with using a bipod. Not a good experiment. Much worse than a pack rest. I anticipated that being the case after reading some articles about light weight rifles. Do you have a suggestion on a better rest?
I'll check the stock, I've already tried to twist it some, but probably didn't give it the attention it deserves. Small chips of what near the recoil lug? Like I said, I'll need this Barney style!
You sound like you're not thrilled about me using a sling to provide downforce to control recoil. What other options are there? I've experimented with using a bipod. Not a good experiment. Much worse than a pack rest. I anticipated that being the case after reading some articles about light weight rifles. Do you have a suggestion on a better rest?
I'll check the stock, I've already tried to twist it some, but probably didn't give it the attention it deserves. Small chips of what near the recoil lug? Like I said, I'll need this Barney style!
lloydsmale
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the Montana stock shouldn't be the problem there a fairly good stock much better then the plastic ones some cheaper guns use. I don't like using a bipod or a sling when working up loads or even shooting a game. Maybe on a big heavy rigid target gun a bipod may not effect things but hanging anything on a light rifle changes things. Get a good rest and some bags and if recoil really bothers you that much put a slip over recoil pad or it or get one of those "PAST" Shoulder pads. I had one and it really took the sting out of my 458.
I don't know if this has been addressed or not but Kimber rifles are known to be hit or miss in the accuracy dept. Some say there barrels just aren't the quality that youd expect on a rifle that expensive. If you go to about any gun fourm dealing with rifles youll find some complaints about them. don't give up though. I think with enough load development youll find a load that gets it down to 1-1 1/2 inch at a 100 yards and that's good enough for any hunting 06.
What you might have to do is think out of the box. Try bullets that are against your better judgment. Like I said I found that ww PowerPoint accurate in guns I would never have suspected and ive seen it in others that wouldn't shoot 3 inch groups with it. Im also not a big fan of barnes bullets. But ive seen them shoot moa in guns that about sprayed everything else and have had them spray in guns that shot about everything else well. Nosler partitions are another bullet like that. Either your gun loves the or hates them and some finiky guns just seem to come alive with bullets like that. Even something way out of the box like a barnes 130 tsx might shoot and be a great whitetail bullet.
Problem with all of this is MONEY. I know ive had finiky guns in the past that ive spent about as much on buying bullets as I have buying the gun or the scope just to find out that its a wasted case. that happens more in cases like yours that its a neat gun to start with. I hate to give up but have found its better to cut my losses and dump it many times. Fortunately im good friends with the local gun dealer so can take a gun home for a few months and if I cant get it to shoot he will buy it back or trade for a different one.
to be honest that Kimber montana 308 I told you about is for sale right now at his shop at a real fair price. My buddy Art died of cancer this summer and his wife is selling all his guns. Ive bought 3 already and would kind of like that Kimber but know its a one load gun. I guess in a 308 that's not a big deal as it would be a deer only gun and going for deer I can think of nothing better then a cup and core 150 anyway. Maybe its fortunate that im about broke right now!!!!!!
I don't know if this has been addressed or not but Kimber rifles are known to be hit or miss in the accuracy dept. Some say there barrels just aren't the quality that youd expect on a rifle that expensive. If you go to about any gun fourm dealing with rifles youll find some complaints about them. don't give up though. I think with enough load development youll find a load that gets it down to 1-1 1/2 inch at a 100 yards and that's good enough for any hunting 06.
What you might have to do is think out of the box. Try bullets that are against your better judgment. Like I said I found that ww PowerPoint accurate in guns I would never have suspected and ive seen it in others that wouldn't shoot 3 inch groups with it. Im also not a big fan of barnes bullets. But ive seen them shoot moa in guns that about sprayed everything else and have had them spray in guns that shot about everything else well. Nosler partitions are another bullet like that. Either your gun loves the or hates them and some finiky guns just seem to come alive with bullets like that. Even something way out of the box like a barnes 130 tsx might shoot and be a great whitetail bullet.
Problem with all of this is MONEY. I know ive had finiky guns in the past that ive spent about as much on buying bullets as I have buying the gun or the scope just to find out that its a wasted case. that happens more in cases like yours that its a neat gun to start with. I hate to give up but have found its better to cut my losses and dump it many times. Fortunately im good friends with the local gun dealer so can take a gun home for a few months and if I cant get it to shoot he will buy it back or trade for a different one.
to be honest that Kimber montana 308 I told you about is for sale right now at his shop at a real fair price. My buddy Art died of cancer this summer and his wife is selling all his guns. Ive bought 3 already and would kind of like that Kimber but know its a one load gun. I guess in a 308 that's not a big deal as it would be a deer only gun and going for deer I can think of nothing better then a cup and core 150 anyway. Maybe its fortunate that im about broke right now!!!!!!
Lloyd, thank you for everything, the advice and the bullets. You've gone far beyond what I would have ever expected, and for a newbie none-the-less.
I will try to shoot it off of my pack without loading the sling next time out. I'll simply grab the stock and control the recoil manually. The front of the stock must be controlled or the rifle becomes unmanageable.
I also went and took out the rifle and twisted, bent and pried on the stock. It flexed, but not much. I think any material would flex some, and the amount of flex I observed was on the milimeter or less magnatude. It does appear that there is more of a gap between the sides of the barrel than there was below the barrel. The bottom of the barrel was so close to the stock that I think I was able to flex the stock to contact the barrel. I'm not smart enough to know if this is normal.
I will try to shoot it off of my pack without loading the sling next time out. I'll simply grab the stock and control the recoil manually. The front of the stock must be controlled or the rifle becomes unmanageable.
I also went and took out the rifle and twisted, bent and pried on the stock. It flexed, but not much. I think any material would flex some, and the amount of flex I observed was on the milimeter or less magnatude. It does appear that there is more of a gap between the sides of the barrel than there was below the barrel. The bottom of the barrel was so close to the stock that I think I was able to flex the stock to contact the barrel. I'm not smart enough to know if this is normal.
Ok, so I took some pictures. Quality of photos is about what you'd expect with a three-year-old taking pictures while his father bends a stock. So keep that in mind 
.
I also took a dollar bill and slipped it between the stock and barrel to try to gauge the gap between the stock and barrel. The dollar wouldn't slide all the way to the end of the stock. I took pictures of the two extremes of the dollar bill's range of movement. Is that normal? If I pull down on the stock I'm able to slide the bill to the end of the stock and out, but it's still tight.
Looks like I have to attach pictures separately because of my iPhone's capabilities.
.I also took a dollar bill and slipped it between the stock and barrel to try to gauge the gap between the stock and barrel. The dollar wouldn't slide all the way to the end of the stock. I took pictures of the two extremes of the dollar bill's range of movement. Is that normal? If I pull down on the stock I'm able to slide the bill to the end of the stock and out, but it's still tight.
Looks like I have to attach pictures separately because of my iPhone's capabilities.
sable tireur
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RichJD13,
First of all, my heartiest congratulations to your photographer. He did a fine job!
Second, it is the contact of the barrel to stock at the end of the forearm that we are concerned with. This is ostensibly where the problems can occur. The barrel should be free floated all the way out. Old school garbage about using a pressure pad at the end of the forearm when sporter barrel contours are used is passe. High quality cut rifled barrels do not need this pressure pad and as you can see, your rifle evidently doesn't either.
Usually this is a product of improper bedding of the barreled action, allowing the position of the barrel to be tilted slightly towards the forearm. The correction can be simply to relieve the pressure in the forearm where the barrel experiences contact if the action bedding is correct. If the action is slightly tilted in the bedding, this bedding must be removed and a fresh start made with new bedding.
I would also remove the barreled action from the stock to determine where the bedding stops in front of the receiver. If it is closer to the receiver than the point at which the dollar bill stopped, you will need to correct all of the bedding.
Regards.
First of all, my heartiest congratulations to your photographer. He did a fine job!
Second, it is the contact of the barrel to stock at the end of the forearm that we are concerned with. This is ostensibly where the problems can occur. The barrel should be free floated all the way out. Old school garbage about using a pressure pad at the end of the forearm when sporter barrel contours are used is passe. High quality cut rifled barrels do not need this pressure pad and as you can see, your rifle evidently doesn't either.
Usually this is a product of improper bedding of the barreled action, allowing the position of the barrel to be tilted slightly towards the forearm. The correction can be simply to relieve the pressure in the forearm where the barrel experiences contact if the action bedding is correct. If the action is slightly tilted in the bedding, this bedding must be removed and a fresh start made with new bedding.
I would also remove the barreled action from the stock to determine where the bedding stops in front of the receiver. If it is closer to the receiver than the point at which the dollar bill stopped, you will need to correct all of the bedding.
Regards.
