John Burns-Best of the West- equipment

[Guest]

John,

Look I'm just gonna cut thorugh all the politically correct BS....

As I originally said I see both sides of this... my point is this

simply put.. You have a TV, Show, you make video's and DVD's. Wether you like it or not you now have the responsibilty to be absolutly clear on everything in all aspects of LR hunting...

you say....

"just spin it to 450 will work very well..."

and now you just said...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> I use one BDC calibrated to 7000 ft and 30 degrees for all my western hunting.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>As the range increases and the conditions alter from those the BDC was created for the user will have to compensate by either dialing the BDC to a range further or shorter than the actual range to the target.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"western hunting" now you are being specific before was very generalized....and now you mention they have to compensate for changing conditions other than what the BDC was made for....
Jeeze John... that is my point anyone who read the intial posting would think .. hell just spin and squeeze... Johns has got to be right. When in fact it isn't the truth and you have said so yourself. Many guys who are newly interested in this sport or are learning this sport visit here.. not as many as before but still there are new people visiting here on a regualr basis. Your position, and information, because of what you do needs to be more clear.

All you guys who claim to love this sport and who e-mail John in support of this thread and seem to think I am attacking him.
Well, I am not attacking him.. I am merely pointing out that the last thing we need are novices who don't understand the basics or the equipment they purchase. In reality it isn't just "spin to 450" anywhere you wanna hunt....
They come here for clear consise information, we have the responsibiblty to give them that.

you guys should feel the same whay if you care about this sport...

[ 11-23-2004: Message edited by: Ric Horst ]

 

[Guest]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>You claim to have seen "Beyond Belief" and are no accusing me of blowing legs off so let me know where you saw that?? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm sure you don't edit out any parts

 

[Len Backus]

I think the productive part of this thread is over so the topic is closed.

 

[PAOERS]

I've seen all of John's DVD's. If you like this sport, you must learn how to use a Ballistic Software. With such knowledge, you will understand that if you start changing conditions around, your point of impact will change. You will then understand that the BCD is only good for ONE CALIBER, ONE BULLET. Field conditions will change your point of impact and the BCD will not work properly. Therefore, stick to the factory target turret (preferrably 1/4 moa). That way, if you plan to shoot a different bullet weight, all you need is a new Ballistic plot for that grain of bullet. To simplify the DIALING of the knob, don't count clicks, but simply on your chart, 4 clicks = 1 MOA, therefore the number 7 on your turret = 28 clicks. With this in mind, just write out the number 7 on your chart and relate that to the Yardage that it corresponds to from your Ballistic plot. So when you have to dial to 7moa, just quickly turn your dial to the #7 on your knob. For example, if your plot shows a 725 yards to have an Elevation adjustment of 9.54 MOA, just dial your turret to the number 9 + 2 clicks, or dial past that point a few clicks and dial back. Your charge should show that this is at 9.2 (the #9 + 2 clicks)..etc...etc..very easy, and you'll only need to have one scope with different charts for different bullet weight. You can do this using the BCD turret, but it'll be very difficult if you don't shoot the same bullet all the time. However, if you do plan to shoot one bullet and one rifle, the BCD is a great tool as it is faster to dial to the desire range.

 

[RockZ]

It is a fact that one BDC knob will not work for all conditions at all distances. The best you can do is to re-zero for the new conditions and reset the BDC to zero. This will reindex for the new conditions. This will greatly reduce the error-but not completely eliminate it. You must use your ballistic software and input the new conditions -expected for the hunt-before your trip of course. Better look up the weather on the weather chahnnel! Simply compare the various conditions using your ballistic software and you can easily make up a fine tuned drop/drift chart.

 

[Kalashnikov]

I consider myself a relatively new long range shooter (700m)(about 3 years and 600 rounds), but lifetime rifleman (at 34 yrs old). I have great interest in becoming proficient in long range shooting and research this very topic and test it at the range. I too questioned how John just dials and shoots and how varying conditions must alter POI. However, I understand that John knows what he is doing...this is obvious from his video. But I am not so "novice" to not have to test this for myself to get a better undestanding of how this all works. Long 1, give us some bloody credit !!

I shoot a 300 RUM with handloads that shoot 1/2 MOA with 180 grain accubond at 3350 fps. I have a ballistic type reticle zeroed at 330 m, and then dead-on out to 400m, 500m and (usually) 600m. I have produced ballistic charts for varying conditions (alt, BP, temp, hum, etc.) and have not seen significant difference out to 500 m, regardless if I am shooting in the prairies(3000 ft), foothills (4500 ft) or mountains (5500 ft). At 600 m, POI starts to be more of a concern, but the wind is much more of a consideration at that range. This is my experience, and based on this, I understand that my set-up is good out to 500 m, at least for all the conditions I hunt in. Sorry Long 1, but "dialing out to 450" easily works for me.

 

[CAM]

GREAT JOB USING THE SEARCH TOOL!!! LOL

This post was closed two years ago!!

Depopulator, Long 1 &amp; Ric are long gone!!!

RockZ, May I add that it would be better to adjust for the longest distance you plan to shoot and let the shorter ranges have small errors.

Hope I'm still a member tomorrow /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
CAM

 

[Jimm]

Hey Len ,

Lookie here , things must be boring somewhere or the other /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Jim B.

 

[RockZ]

Cam
Thanks- I forgot to include that and was going to go back and add that-to zero our rifle at a longer range
But figured I'd give it a rest.

 

[Guest]

You can read an analysis of the debate at bey0ndbelief.com/JonBerns1.htm

 

[Wild_Bill]

Hi all i shoot targets to 1200 yards with a 284 and 175gr Projectiles and also have some long range rifles with a 338-300 ultra mag improved being built at the moment. I also have a Steyr SSG PII and it has the military Kahles ZF84 10X42 scope on it and calibrated to 800m. Now if you are trying to use it for precise shot placement at long ranges forget about it you have to adjust the elevation these knobs are OK at the closer ranges up to as stated 450 yards but this is a LONG RANGE shooting site most of my rifles are zero'd at 300 yards so i can just aim high to hit 450. these knobs do work where a military shoter just has to hit a target and not worry about if it is cleanly dispatched and they do not have to track game that has been wounded. The knobs are useless if you change your components say you have a faster or slower batch of powder or a new batch of projectiles the whole system witt not be calibrated as those changes do efect the balistics. If someone wants to just wind and be close enough they will work but then how do you incorperate the angles of shooting up or downhills correctly you just cahn dial that in easilu do you just geus 963 yards is 950 and aim a bit high or do you then use your ACI and find you are shooting at an angle and you realy have to shoot 785 yards and with target turrets you can adjust to the exact distance and also adjust for the temperature, humidity, and elevation.

If you are serious in long range hunting you need.
An accurate range finder.
A PDA with the software or correct charts printed for all scenareos
a device like an ACI for measuring angles.
a scope level.

And a very accurate rifle with enough retained energy to cleanly dispatch the game likely to be encounted with a top quality scope with target turrets on it for fine adjustments or a good balistic reticle or both.

and the last most important thing is the knowlidge and experience of when and even more importent when not to take a shot.

Cheers Bill
Australia

 

[davkrat]

Woah, that site gave me a head ache. I don't understand the problem with rounding up from 3.89 or down from 4.1. If your scope uses 1/4MOA clicks 4.0 is closer than either 3.75 or 4.25. Even if you could make 1/8MOA adjustments you'd still be pretty close. Just get a second BDC if you are going to change conditions that drastically. If you're going elk hunting in Colorado in November you can probably come up with a pretty good estimation of the conditions. I've watched a lot of the Best of the West and they don't usually shoot much past 700 yards and at the original posters conditions at 450 yards the BDC should work very well. Maybe to people at this site that is not long range but to the majority of the hunting public I guarantee a 700 yard shot is long range, long enough for many people to scoff at it. I believe that the Best of the West has shown that with proper equipment and PRACTICE 700 yard shots are possible. Now at the ranges the amazing shooters on this board drop stuff (1500+ yards) I definately would not recomend a BDC. At those ranges problems really start to compound, of course shooting a laser like Kirby builds helps negate some of those complicating factors. At any rate everyone has their own opinions and techniques that work for them. Hopefully anyone who gets a BDC would go try it out and see whether or not it works for them before they go blow any legs off animals. My $.02

 

[highlanderll]

Even:

The larger caliber rifle he is using is a 7mm STW, some of the smaller ones are 243, and 22-243. I had it figured that he was using big 30's! He is using berger bullets for all as far as I can tell. The scope you see on his rifles all look like Horus. There web page is www.horusvision.com if I remeber it right. Anyway that's about all I knoow for now.
Oh in the 243 he used a 105gr berger VLD, and a 168 VLD in the STW.

Good Hunting Brian, Anchorage Alaska

 

[Buffalobob]

[ QUOTE ]
If you are serious in long range hunting you need.
An accurate range finder.
A PDA with the software or correct charts printed for all scenareos
a device like an ACI for measuring angles.
a scope level.


[/ QUOTE ]

<font color="red"> Well dang me,
dang me,
they otta take a rope and hang me.
high from the highest tree.

Woman would you weep for me.

Glug, glug, glug. </font>

I ain't go no PDA
I aint got no ACI
and my scope level got knocked catwampus
so I never raised it up; and,
my charts were 4000 ft in elevation wrong.

No wonder I never manage to kill nothing.

Thanks for the help Wild Bill. I was wondering why my freezer is empty and I am starving to death.