John Burns-Best of the West- equipment

[Guest]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Out to 600 yds there is not much difference <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I love that statement....Just how much is not much.Lets say a 308 shooting 175's at 2600fps.How much is too much????Not everybody shoots a lazer John..

[ 11-18-2004: Message edited by: The Long 1 ]

 

[Len Backus]

Long 1

I'm just curious as to what is your goal in this discussion?

The makers of a custom TTC knob designed for one specific set of conditions don't suggest it works for all conditions nor does John Burns say that.

The original poster's example range was 450 yards. John's response to you indicated that at the original poster's mentioned range (450 yards) that the TTC knob would work under a fairly wide set of conditions...including those in your example.

Again, no one is suggesting it works at all ranges or under all conditions so just what is your motivation here? You seem pretty argumentative

 

[Guest]

I can very easily see both sides of this....

John does shoot a lazer type rifle... but at 1000 yards you can be 2 MOA lower if you were to shoot at 500 ft ASL in 70* and 80% humidity. that could be a miss or a wounded animal....

Same holds true with a 308 shooting a 175 at 2650... (actually 2.25 moa...)

2MOA is 2MOA those BDC knobs are good if you hunt in one place an one place only.. if you shoot in various locations and conditions... it is way better to have a log book and a chart...

 

[Len Backus]

Ric, yes, of course, your example is valid. But where do you and Long 1 get the idea that John or Kenton Industries promote the use of the TTC for all situations?

 

[Guest]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>The makers of a custom TTC knob designed for one specific set of conditions don't suggest it works for all conditions nor does John Burns say that.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Mr Backus,that is my point.They will NOT work in all conditions.I have yet to see John say that in any of his posts.Most people on this forum take's what he says as gospel.I'm sorry I know better.Since he won't say that for changing conditions,you will need another knob calibrated for those conditions I will...I hate it when people are'nt told the whole story <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>The original poster's example range was 450 yards. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I too used that as a base line.But when I ask him what happens at longer ranges this was his reply.Instead of just telling the truth <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>I know exactly what happens at extended ranges and have it documented on video.

You choose to post an example that showed you don't know what really happens in the real world and were called on it. Now you want to change the example to try and prove your point instead of admitting you were wrong. Sorry but it doesn't work that way.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>All he had to do was say,Long 1 you are right,the tcc knob made for one set of conditions WILL NOT WORK correctly when the conditions change and yardage increases.I just want to see it "Told like it is"

 

[Guest]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> But where do you and Long 1 get the idea that John or Kenton Industries promote the use of the TTC for all situations? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I will pretty much bet my right leg to the fact that John does'nt own a LR Big game rifle that does'nt have one on it..

 

[Guest]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>or Kenton Industries promote the use of the TTC for all situations? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Len,you are missing the point.They can be used in all situations.You just need different knob's for the different conditions...And if John would just say that then people would know the whole truth.Insead of just half of it...If I shot in the same conditions all the time I would probably use one.But I don't.99 pecent of the hunters don't either.Thats all I am gonna say on this matter.God(John) has spoken so it must be true

 

[Guest]

Len,

I don't know who the long 1 is but his point is valid and John said they work in all conditions... in his example he says 4 MOA and 4.1 MOA and he doesnt see the significant difference...
that is kinda misleading to those who havn't had the experience to know better.. if I was a novice I'd assume that they work in all conditions.. but I have shot enough rounds from PA to FL to NC to the high mtns of Wyo to know that one knob won't do the trick...

John may or may not have a vested interest in kenton industries.. but he is misleading in his statements.. it appears that he says you can use them in all conditions. People are more apt to believe him because of how he chooses to make a living...

 

[Len Backus]

Long 1

Now I'm getting really curious...

I will pretty much bet my right leg to the fact that John doesn't own a LR Big game rifle that does'nt have one on it..

If so, what's your point here?

You just need different knob's for the different conditions...And if John would just say that then people would know the whole truth

John did tell me that some months back. And the Kenton Industries' home page makes it about as clear as it could be so I guess they both told the whole truth. I am just chuckling here by myself at your inference that there is some kind of intentional secret being foisted upon the public by John and Kenton Industries.

But I respect your wish to lay the matter to rest. Thanks.

 

[Guest]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>I will pretty much bet my right leg to the fact that John doesn't own a LR Big game rifle that does'nt have one on it..

If so, what's your point here?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>My point is that on his rifles that have "THE KNOB" does he have different knob's for different conditions,or does he just guess,or maybe he doe'nt shoot far enough to worry about it... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>John did tell me that some months back. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Then why instead of just saying that to me did he come off with this when I ask him what happens at longer ranges...I think the blowing legs off thing really must have got to him...He's done it a time or two I suppose. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Long 1,
I know exactly what happens at extended ranges and have it documented on video.

You choose to post an example that showed you don't know what really happens in the real world and were called on it. Now you want to change the example to try and prove your point instead of admitting you were wrong. Sorry but it doesn't work that way.


Jesse Jaymes came here looking for help and for some reason you felt the need to spout off in an area you have limited experience in. That is not what this board is about.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[Ernie]

Not really knowing anyone on this specific thread (and before many posts were made) I clicked on Kenton's web page, and readily read that different knobs were needed for different conditions. I then called them since I use LER handgun scopes, since I don't own or hunt with a centerfire rifle. I wanted to see if he made them for the Burris 3-12 LER's. Again, in our conversation it was clear I was looking at multiple knobs. Regardless of those involved in this conversation, Kenton Industry (correct name?) made it clear to me that multiple knobs were required in my first and only conversation. I have not ordered any from him since they don't make them for Burris currently. If they do, I know I will own several since they will benefit me for the type of shooting/hunting I do. My max range on game is under 700 yards under ideal conditions.

 

[Guest]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>readily read that different knobs were needed for different conditions. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>True,now why did'nt John just say that when I ask him what happens at longer yardages instead of come off to me "With I know nothing about it...?...He's wrong,and just won't admit it....

 

[mad4hunting]

I have tried to access thebestofthewest.net home page to purchase the beyond belief dvd, but have not been able to. Does anyone know if the site is down all I get is cannot find page??

 

[John Burns]

Sorry I don't have the time to answer in as timely a manner as some would like but this time of year is very busy for me.

Long 1,

You just keep changing the example to try and win an argument. What in the world does a .308 have to do with the original post??

Jesse Jaymes asked about my equipment as seen on the show so that is the context of my responses.

You whine that you are just telling the truth but your original post was WRONG and mean spirited. You either didn't know what you were talking about or were intentionally giving a new guy bad information when you stated, "I'm sorry but your "JUST SPIN IT TO 450"won't work any more."

I choose to give you the benefit of the doubt and corrected you unquestionably incorrect statement, in a rather polite manner considering the unpleasant tone of your post.

You claim to have seen "Beyond Belief" and are no accusing me of blowing legs off so let me know where you saw that?? Pretty easy to sit in computer land and hide behind "The Long 1" from everywhere.

Ric,

Why don't you give me the exact quote that you considered misleading?? It seems only you and The Long 1 are having a hard time understanding what I wrote.

To everyone on the issue of BDCs (Bullet Drop Compensators) being used in various conditions this might help clarify my opinions (If anyone cares):

I will say all of my personal systems and most of those seen on the show are equipped with BDCs.

I use one BDC calibrated to 7000 ft and 30 degrees for all my western hunting.

Most of the shots shown in our DVD "Beyond Belief" used this system. The conditions these shots were taken in varied in elevation from 4000 ft to 11,500 ft. The temp varied from –20 deg to +85 deg. The results of those shots are available for anyone to judge the effectiveness of this system.

I believe BDCs to be much superior to counting clicks in any conceivable hunting condition.

As the range increases and the conditions alter from those the BDC was created for the user will have to compensate by either dialing the BDC to a range further or shorter than the actual range to the target.

I carry a conversion chart that cross-references temp and altitude to give a corrected range to adjust the BDC.

If I was going on a major hunt in conditions significantly different than 7000 ft and 30 deg (hard to find) I might be tempted to make another BDC for those specific conditions but I currently have only one BDC per system.

I personally made all of my BDCs. I used to run a CNC machine shop and made them from bar stock. I have no interest in Kenton Industries other than a desire to see them succeed and I have had them build one BDC for a gun I put together for Ray Milligan (The most successful elk outfitter in the world). They did a great job. Ray has used this one BDC from New Mexico to Alaska with great success. (He recently finished his sheep grand slam here in Wyoming with it and we will be showing the hunt on "The Best of the West".)

Hope this clears up any confusion as to how the systems used on "The Best of the West" and "Beyond Belief" are used and set up.

Thanks for all the emails in support on this thread. You guys are great.


mad4hunting,
www.thebestofthewest.net