Issues I have with E bike deer hunting want your thoughts

[bowhunter1287]

Well in Wyoming it is illegal to have e bikes off road. They are treated like vehicles have to stay on two track or road on blm land. That was from the ranger

 

[dfanonymous]

It was probably @Litehiker

 

[THE1LAF]

As a bike Mechanic who has serviced all the mfg's listed... You think hunters have a distaste for E-bikes? I tell you bike shop techs are on a whole different level.. lol

Mfg's "dump their entire budget" into the electronics and aesthetics. suspension, frame & drivetrain suffers. you have a $4-6k+ bike being driven by a ~$45 cost drivetrain package that fails after a few weeks because it isn't designed for the torque electric motors can provide. The electronics are fragile at best, and wiring is a mess.

There's also different classes of E-bikes:

• Class 1: Pedal-assist only; motor provides assistance all the way up to 20 mph.
• Class 2: Pedal-assist or throttle; motor provides assistance all the way up to 20 mph.
• Class 3: Pedal assist only; motor provides assistance all the way up to 28 mph.

Personally I think anything with a throttle (Class 2) should be with Gas powered vehicles period, and a lot of MT feels the same way.
Lower Power Class 1 doesn't cause much of a disturbance, all depends on the rider, but most of the E-bikes in this discussion (Quiet Kat, Bakcou, Ranger, etc.) fall in the Class 2 Category.

 

[dfanonymous]

why shouldn't they have the same rights as you and your horses??

Impact. It's why there's even rules on motorized traffic in the first place. Places are assessed and given a value by the state and land management on what kind of foot print they think the land should have. Further so on a particular established trail.

You have to be careful with that, the "people should do what they want" when it comes to the public land you hunt can very easily turn into dudes tearing up the land with dirt bikes, razors and the works in the name of equality.

I've been hunting big game for longer than a day, and can tell you game don't like motors whizzing by their beds either. In case you are looking for supplemental reasons.

People are free to rent pack animals if they are too broke to own them, and too weak to hike.

 

[THE1LAF]

Impact. It's why there's even rules on motorized traffic in the first place. Places are assessed and given a value by the state and land management on what kind of foot print they think the land should have. Further so on a particular established trail.

You have to be careful with that, the "people should do what they want" when it comes to the public land you hunt can very easily turn into dudes tearing up the land with dirt bikes, razors and the works in the name of equality.

I've been hunting big game for longer than a day, and can tell you game don't like motors whizzing by their beds either. In case you are looking for supplemental reasons.

People are free to rent pack animals if they are too broke to own them, and too weak to hike.

I agree on the Impact part, but government rules are far from logical.
Like "Wilderness" rules. You're telling me any animal is fine, but a game cart is off limits because it has a wheel? Wheels aren't "modern", they were invented in the 4th Millennium BC. but ole Teddy made a mess of things.


Also I don't know that "Too broke for pack animals" is a thing.
Most people don't understand how much work, exercise and training they require. It's always the hunter in camp that got bucked off or their pack and gear thrown everywhere that says "idk what's wrong, he was just fine last year" and that's just it, you haven't bothered to do any more than feed him for the last 350 days.

 

[comfisherman]

I've no problem where legal, my issue is when Folks think an e bike somehow means it's not motorized even though it specifically is a motorized vehicle by definition.

We have some non motor (including all e bikes) areas and the last few years have been taken over by e bikes. The greenie weenies have started to moan and in its over handed approach the state is considering any type of mechanical advantage ban (so pedal power bikes). I can kinds understand the issue. I'm not a normal sized person, so to float on some of these trails I'm rolling on very wide low psi fat bike tires, reality is even Lance Armstrong ar the height of his doping couldn't spin the watts needed to sling mud with a bike tire. And average e bike can produce 2 or 3 times the sustained watts that even an accomplished cyclist simply cannot.

While sold as an aide to the disabled and elderly or to speed a commute has been co opted by the slightly heavier among us. If they stuck to the motor sections I think it's great they are out moving. But not when it's an abuse of the rules.

 

[dfanonymous]

I agree on the Impact part, but government rules are far from logical.
Like "Wilderness" rules. You're telling me any animal is fine, but a game cart is off limits because it has a wheel? Wheels aren't "modern", they were invented in the 4th Millennium BC. but ole Teddy made a mess of things.

It's different state to state for that reason. A game cart on a quad to the rest of the citizenry will not being seen as different. You allow one quad, you allow all quads.

A reason it COUlD have more impact is when you have a few thousand peoples a year that comes up at all times of year with their quads, yes. It's turns things into a 4x4 trail. Horses have more impact than a human foot, but between the amount of horses a year that go out, and the relatively low impact that have…generally horses are allowed still in most lands in non motorized areas.

Wilderness imo should very well be protected. A lot of people, I suspect city people, don't know how to clean up after themselves. I could only imagine the shannigans if allowed to just go 12 miles through untouched natural lands with a technical. Right now, there's always a few hikers a year that are lost, killed etc in some of these wilderness. Again, I could only imagine dudes on quads that don't even know how to use a map.

All at the cost of the land physical wellbeing.

 

[P7M13]

I think they're tacky, just another form of road hunting. Whether they're allowed or not, I don't really care - someone's looking to gain an advantage.
The way some dudes speed on logging roads, I would not want to be on an ebike.
I'd be super surprised to see ebikes or quads where I go.

 

[THE1LAF]

Don't tell me. That's your state. It's different state to state for that reason. A game cart on a quad to the rest of the citizenry will not being seen as different. You allow one quad you allow all quads.

A reason it COUlD have more impact is when you have a few thousand peoples a year that comes up at all times of year with their quads, yes. It's turns things into a 4x4 trail. Horses have more impact than a human foot, but between the amount of horses a year that go out, and the relatively low impact that have…generally horses are allowed still in most lands in non motorized areas.

Wilderness rules are federal, not state. It just depends if your state has any Wilderness area.
By "game cart" I'm talking about a pedestrian pushed single wheel cart to haul game, but all wheels are off limits,

 

[dfanonymous]

Wilderness rules are federal, not state. It just depends if your state has any Wilderness area.
By "game cart" I'm talking about a pedestrian pushed single wheel cart to haul game, but all wheels are off limits,

I'm talking on federal lands. Yes wilderness is federal.

I don't know man, I hike in and carry game out on my back like a man.

The signs don't say "no wheels." The signs says no motorized traffic. At least everywhere I've been. Sometimes they have pictures for are lesser intelligent humans that can't read.

 

[THE1LAF]

I'm talking on federal lands. Yes wilderness is federal.

I don't know man, I hike in and carry game out on my back like a man.

The signs don't say "no wheels." The signs says no motorized traffic. Sometimes they have pictures for are lesser intelligent humans that can't read.

Signs & rules rarely coincide, and they have to dumb it down, absolutely.
I'm just saying in certain areas isn't just a "motorized" discussion. I was trying to go bikepacking along the MT/WY line this summer but wilderness rules strictly prohibits any "wheels" or "aircraft" touching soil on wilderness area.

 

[dfanonymous]

Signs & rules rarely coincide, and they have to dumb it down, absolutely.
I'm just saying in certain areas isn't just a "motorized" discussion. I was trying to go bikepacking along the MT/WY line this summer but wilderness rules strictly prohibits any "wheels" or "aircraft" touching soil on wilderness area.

So were they dumbing it down, or is that the rule?

I've looked up a long time ago what "motorized equipment" was defined as. I'm pretty sure if you walk a game cart in then it's fine.

That's the actual rule but there is additional state level wilderness rules too. Like Colorado wilderness act 1993.

 

[THE1LAF]

So were they dumbing it down, or is that the rule?

I've looked up a long time ago what "motorized equipment" was defined as. I'm pretty sure if you walk a game cart in then it's fine.

That's the actual rule but there is additional state level wilderness rules too. Like Colorado wilderness act 1993.

I can't find it on the centralized usfs/nps website but the 3-4 localized nps regulations from several states is listed as so:

• Motorized equipment and mechanized equipment such as bicycles, wagons, carts or wheelbarrows (except wheelchairs). These uses are incompatible with the legal and ethical definition of wilderness.

• Possessing or using a wheeled or mechanical device is prohibited (drone, bicycle, motorcycle, cart, etc.), except for persons requiring a wheelchair may use non-motorized wheelchair.

 

[dfanonymous]

I can't find it on the centralized usfs/nps website but the 3-4 localized nps regulations from several states is listed as so:

• Motorized equipment and mechanized equipment such as bicycles, wagons, carts or wheelbarrows (except wheelchairs). These uses are incompatible with the legal and ethical definition of wilderness.

• Possessing or using a wheeled or mechanical device is prohibited (drone, bicycle, motorcycle, cart, etc.), except for persons requiring a wheelchair may use non-motorized wheelchair.

Yeah, I found a few on the fd.usda website that said no carts.

Seems it's pretty well written now that I'm looking for it as far as carts are concerned. Interesting about the handglider references too. So I see your point about the "anything wheeled" issue.