Is it time for to me to give up on my wildcat?

[Taylorbok]

Update here.

I had Manson send my reamers to Old Dominion custom rifles and I'll have him set my barrel back to clean out the oversized portion of my chamber. I'm also going to have him cut me a new sizing die from a newlon blank.

I decided to not have Manson regrind my reamer to change any dimensions. Zach is going to throat out further when he Re Chambers it so I can play around with some longer bullets. I'm highly confident having him cut the chamber and make me a new sizing die will fix all the issues I was having with brass sizing etc.

I'm glad you chose this route, I think it's going to alleviate all your issues. I don't know if your stuck on that Newlon die but I would highly recommend going the Whidden die route if you can wait.

P.S. Newlon isn't super fast with blanks either. maybe you/he already have one.

 

[Tac-O]

I'm glad you chose this route, I think it's going to alleviate all your issues. I don't know if your stuck on that Newlon die but I would highly recommend going the Whidden die route if you can wait.

P.S. Newlon isn't super fast with blanks either. maybe you/he already have one.

Ya he said awhile back when I talked to him he usually does bushing Newlon blanks so he didn't have any standard FL blanks on hand and he didn't know the exact lead time on getting one. I'll ask him about this.

I figured the lead time would likely still be faster doing that than going with another custom die maker. Last time I looked which was quite awhile ago, they were all 12-16 weeks out.

Do you happen to know whidden's current lead time? Edit: whidden's site says 10 weeks. I'd also considered a Hornady custom die since they're cheaper and all reports I've seen of those is satisfactory. Wheeler said he uses Hornady and they're good. I'd say that's good enough for me!

 

[Frank in the Laurels]

..the hardest thing in life is coming to the realization that sometimes " it's just not worth the time and effort". CONGRATULATIONS, your on your way to a speedy recovery.

 

[VinceMule]

Tac-o, with the brass flow, you may have tapered neck thickness. A tube micrometer is needed. Neck turning would be first on my list of things to do to give .004-.005 clearance and good bullet release. this is no small issue.

 

[mike33]

I have been screwing around with a 30-284 since mid-2021. I've sunk so many dollars into it and still feel like something is not right. I'm getting tired of spending way too much time trouble shooting and loading instead of just quickly loading some and being able to spend more time practicing in the field.

If I had some money to throw at it, I'd just send the barreled action, reamers, brass, and sizing die to someone like Wheeler Accuracy or similar and have them troubleshoot it and do what needs to be done to make it work like I want. But I have no money.

What do you guys think? How many of you have thrown in the towel on wildcats, went to factory ammo or at least simplified your loading and became much happier with your rifles? I might be at the point of saying F it.

Never

 

[mannup1515]

I am thinking what I would like to do is send it to someone with my reamers and dies, have them do the necessary measurements and determine if the reamers are in/out of spec, if my chamber and die were cut correctly, and determine what I need to do fix the issues.

That is if I don't just get rid of it and go with a factory chamber.

Please don't give up on this cartridge!
I have a straight 30-284 and love it…
I run it in a 28" tube and it does amazing things! RL26 and the 200.20x is also a beautiful combo…
I'm getting 2880 fps out of it…
At my altitude I shoot at it is staying supersonic to 1850 yards! I've also used the 200.20x in a 308 with awesome results hunting…
The 30-284 has been so tolerant of any load combination I throw at it…
It always wants to shoot tiny groups…
This cartridge is a hidden gem…

 

[hembrook]

After calling a few folks that have good reputations about having a new die made with my reamer, I'm wondering if it would be more worthwhile to just buy a custom Hornady die rather than pay to have my reamer reground then pay about $300 to get the die made.

I have had good success with Hornady dies with my .30 Hembrook Long. No bulges or other problems there, but I agree when the brass size and the reamer size are close you get clickers. My solution was a .002 larger reamer.

 

[hembrook]

I have a straight 30-284 and love it…

Isn't that basically a 7.5 Swiss with a .473 head?

 

[Husky user]

Sorry ,but I can't see any reason for this wildcat, because there are several SA 30's out there.
If you want to make a .473 bolt face 30 mag. start with a 6.5 RPM Weatherby,.
Buy some once fired brass from Weatherby and neck it up.
I guess I would rather take the easy way than go through all the problems you are having!

 

[Wyosam]

Sorry ,but I can't see any reason for this wildcat, because there are several SA 30's out there.
If you want to make a .473 bolt face 30 mag. start with a 6.5 RPM Weatherby,.
Buy some once fired brass from Weatherby and neck it up.
I guess I would rather take the easy way than go through all the problems you are having!

But the RPM is not a short action. I'd say that one fills a very different niche than a standard 284 based wildcat.

 

[Tac-O]

Please don't give up on this cartridge!
I have a straight 30-284 and love it…
I run it in a 28" tube and it does amazing things! RL26 and the 200.20x is also a beautiful combo…
I'm getting 2880 fps out of it…
At my altitude I shoot at it is staying supersonic to 1850 yards! I've also used the 200.20x in a 308 with awesome results hunting…
The 30-284 has been so tolerant of any load combination I throw at it…
It always wants to shoot tiny groups…
This cartridge is a hidden gem…

I think it is too. The only issue is consistent brass availability, especially if you want to use Lapua. Mine was very accurate, even with the sizing issues.

See my update in post #70

I have had good success with Hornady dies with my .30 Hembrook Long. No bulges or other problems there, but I agree when the brass size and the reamer size are close you get clickers. My solution was a .002 larger reamer.

Ray at Manson did find that my resize reamer was about a thou too large at the 0.200 line and that my sizing die was just cut too large. After they've fixed the resize reamer, I should be able to get a new QUALITY die made, have the chamber set back, and it will alleviate the problems. There should be 0.004 difference between my chamber and sizing die at the 0.200 line.

Isn't that basically a 7.5 Swiss with a .473 head?

Sort of. Looking at the saami prints for both, the swiss cartridge is a hair smaller than the 284 but I don't know if there would be a functional capacity difference.

Sorry ,but I can't see any reason for this wildcat, because there are several SA 30's out there.
If you want to make a .473 bolt face 30 mag. start with a 6.5 RPM Weatherby,.
Buy some once fired brass from Weatherby and neck it up.
I guess I would rather take the easy way than go through all the problems you are having!

The whole reason I first wanted to do this cartridge was to stay with a .473 bolt head, use a Tikka action (medium length), and shoot long bullets out of an '06 capacity case without intruding on powder capacity. The 30-284 fills that need and my AI of it just makes it unique, more expensive, and a bigger pain for brass prep it does actually add about 1.5 grains or so of capacity though. And it also hides pressure well so I have no idea when I've gone over 65k psi

 

[QuietTexan]

The whole reason I first wanted to do this cartridge was...

Yes sir. Very specific reasons particular to you that make this an awesome project. Don't give on on it!

 

[fta0303]

It definitely hammers! It's the most accurate gun I've owned. The majority of the problem is brass/sizing, cost of fireforming, probably need to neck turn but don't have the tools, the list goes on and on.

There's tons of info to share, so it may take a bit to get the whole picture out there.

30-284 AI - prints attached, Manson reamers. I own the chamber and resizer reamer
Tikka action
Mullerworks 23" 10 twist barrel
FL sizing die is a PTG die blank, unhardened

Chambered and dies cut by Robinson Precision Rifles. He's no longer in business and I didn't hear back last time I tried to contact him last year. He seemed to be an awesome guy. Knowledgeable, easy to work with, etc. His work seemed good, however the chamber and die cuts aren't quite as smooth as I expected them to be. I know his work was at least concentric. I feel like some of the issues I'm dealing with are either from his work or from the reamers, but I'm not sure which.

My main load is
Peterson or Lapua brass (mostly Peterson)
185 juggernauts
Cci200
55.5gr h4350
2825fps

Deprime

It definitely hammers! It's the most accurate gun I've owned. The majority of the problem is brass/sizing, cost of fireforming, probably need to neck turn but don't have the tools, the list goes on and on.

There's tons of info to share, so it may take a bit to get the whole picture out there.

30-284 AI - prints attached, Manson reamers. I own the chamber and resizer reamer
Tikka action
Mullerworks 23" 10 twist barrel
FL sizing die is a PTG die blank, unhardened

Chambered and dies cut by Robinson Precision Rifles. He's no longer in business and I didn't hear back last time I tried to contact him last year. He seemed to be an awesome guy. Knowledgeable, easy to work with, etc. His work seemed good, however the chamber and die cuts aren't quite as smooth as I expected them to be. I know his work was at least concentric. I feel like some of the issues I'm dealing with are either from his work or from the reamers, but I'm not sure which.

My main load is
Peterson or Lapua brass (mostly Peterson)
185 juggernauts
Cci200
55.5gr h4350
2825fps

Deprime
Clean carbon off neck exterior w 3m pad
Anneal every loading
Brush interior neck
Dry graphite lube interior neck and Lee lube on body
Size FL die, bump shoulders 0.003
Expand neck w mandrel

The main issue I'm having is with brass sizing.

First off, if you look at my chamber print, you'll see that the 0.200 line is 0.502. that is supposed to be 0.200 from the base of the case, right? On both brands of cases, that line is just ahead of the start of the extractor groove, or the head, by maybe 1/16". On my cases that I've fired multiple times, say 4 or more, I measure a diameter of 0.503 at 0.275 from the base, while the head measures 0.499-0.500. That means there is basically a small "hump" just forward of the 0.200 line. This doesn't make sense to me per the chamber print.

Secondly, my sizing die reamer print is 0.498 at the 0.200 line. This should be just right for getting enough sizing at the base to prevent getting"clickers" after multiple reloads. But, after a number reloads my brass will only size down to about 0.502 at that "hump" and I will then get some clickers when shooting.

View attachment 542476

Also, I get way more case growth on each firing than I expected to for an AI case. It grows about 0.003-0.004 every reload. The shoulder diameter is spec'd at 0.482, which a 0.004 delta seems fine for a hunting gun, but the shoulder doesn't spring back much if at all and it actually measures 0.482 after sizing. This to me seems like the culprit for getting a case growth of 0.003 or so every loading.

These are the main issues. Other ones are smaller more easily dealt with things.

I recently bought Eric Cortina's expand mandrel die to use as a base sizer. The description on his site made it sound like it would work for mine, but apparently it has a small 7mm neck hole. It did size the base of my brass well, but it also ruined the case at the neck. So hopefully he'll let me return it. This sparked my anger with this wildcat last night .

View attachment 542477

w 3m pad
Anneal every loading
Brush interior neck
Dry graphite lube interior neck and Lee lube on body
Size FL die, bump shoulders 0.003
Expand neck w mandrel

The main issue I'm having is with brass sizing.

First off, if you look at my chamber print, you'll see that the 0.200 line is 0.502. that is supposed to be 0.200 from the base of the case, right? On both brands of cases, that line is just ahead of the start of the extractor groove, or the head, by maybe 1/16". On my cases that I've fired multiple times, say 4 or more, I measure a diameter of 0.503 at 0.275 from the base, while the head measures 0.499-0.500. That means there is basically a small "hump" just forward of the 0.200 line. This doesn't make sense to me per the chamber print.

Secondly, my sizing die reamer print is 0.498 at the 0.200 line. This should be just right for getting enough sizing at the base to prevent getting"clickers" after multiple reloads. But, after a number reloads my brass will only size down to about 0.502 at that "hump" and I will then get some clickers when shooting.

View attachment 542476

Also, I get way more case growth on each firing than I expected to for an AI case. It grows about 0.003-0.004 every reload. The shoulder diameter is spec'd at 0.482, which a 0.004 delta seems fine for a hunting gun, but the shoulder doesn't spring back much if at all and it actually measures 0.482 after sizing. This to me seems like the culprit for getting a case growth of 0.003 or so every loading.

These are the main issues. Other ones are smaller more easily dealt with things.

I recently bought Eric Cortina's expand mandrel die to use as a base sizer. The description on his site made it sound like it would work for mine, but apparently it has a small 7mm neck hole. It did size the base of my brass well, but it also ruined the case at the neck. So hopefully he'll let me return it. This sparked my anger with this wildcat last night .

View attachment 542477

 

[fta0303]

It seems that you are getting carbon build-up on the case neck after firing, since you are having to clean with a 3M pad. This shouldn't be happening. It indicates that the neck portion of the chamber is cut a bit too big. I had a 6.5-284 built, and it came with this problem. If I recall correctly, I confirmed the problem by measuring the neck diameter on a fired case - it was larger than spec. I asked him to re-cut the chamber to 6.5 Wby RPM, he did, and that problem went away.

I see your photo of a case standing on end, with a ring of metal around the neck. It looks like this case is a fired case. I'm thinking that you resized it and got this result (?) If you try to use a properly made resizing die on a fired case that has expanded in diameter beyond spec, it might build up a shaving roll something like pictured. Just speculation, though.