Introducing the Absolute Hammer

[dogz]

from my testing with 22.250. light grain bullets like 52 hollow points out of a 26 inch barrel would fly apart before a target with a 9 twist. You can get rpm calculations and at some point you over rpm certain bullet construction. Some bullets even come with max velocity.

I'm a varmint person. At a young age i saw critters vaporized with frangible bullets like 87 v-max out of 25-06 or 100 grain out of .270 when you exceed 3600 fps. the only way to explain it is super high RPM causing it to fly apart without any penetration

Those bullets coming apart in your 9 twist are more than likely more so from a rough throat than the twist...

Proving that bullets spun mucho faster on big game in theory should make for a more dramatic kill but in real world pretty much impossible to prove.

Now on rodent's like PD's if one uses the same same bullets etc in say 223's side by side with a 8 twist verse a 12 or so you will see much more for air time and goo factor! On our 500 round (per person) pd days it's interesting to run those comparisons all in the sake of research and stress mgt right...

 

[Wedgy]

No carcasses were tested, we have shot a bunch of cull animals on the hoof and just had a huge hunt in Australia with over 100 animals taken

Tested in Montana on elk and cows a ways back.

 

[HARPERC]

Personally regarding bloodshot, I shot an antelope last fall 6.5 Ultracat, 3960 MV 1-6" twist 124 HH, less than 100 yards. Exit opposite shoulder very minimal "blood shot".

I don't recall any carcass shooting. Ballistic gel, and lots of tags filled.

Conversations backed by pictures, and ButterBean's 124 HH, at 4000 fps, results on Asiatic Buffalo are to use his words "a game changer".

Food for thought: We've heard forever about bullets not "going to sleep yet". If a bullet doesn't land squarely on nose speculate what you think will happen?

We pick a track to the vitals with our shot, if a bullet chooses another track is that a good thing?

Lighter bullets, at the same terminal velocities are out penetrating heavyweights.

Scrub Bulls, feral horses/donkeys, pigs, asiatic buffalo have all earned their reputation for toughness. So the 100 or so tested were all hard targets.

 

[HARPERC]

Tested in Montana on elk and cows a ways back.

I missed that, but obviously something you've seen or heard.

 

[ButterBean]

Tested in Montana on elk and cows a ways back.

Copy

 

[nealm66]

A problem I am recently experiencing is that between my brother and I , we have a lot of rifles in different calibers that I believe will do extremely well with hh and ah bullets. Now, even though I have extremely good loads for all of these rifles, I want to try these new wiz bang bullets and my brother is also pestering me . Also, I blabbed to my neighbor and… yaaaaa… What a fantastic problem!! Thanks to all for bringing these to the table and sharing information

 

[QuietTexan]

I was a bit disappointed to hear that the 180 HH outruns the 178 AH past 500 yards because I was planning on using them in a 300 RUM... so I bought some 180 HHs for the RUM and a new 30-06 to shoot the AHs. Win-win all around.

 

[nicholasjohn]

I was a bit disappointed to hear that the 180 HH outruns the 178 AH past 500 yards because I was planning on using them in a 300 RUM... so I bought some 180 HHs for the RUM and a new 30-06 to shoot the AHs. Win-win all around.

Does the 180 HH have the better BC between the two of them ? At some point the BC takes over, and trumps higher initial velocity - seems like that might be what you're commenting on with these two bullets.

 

[QuietTexan]

Of course I can't find it now, but it was something they were very open about. I think it had to do with the drag from the reverse PDR band that gives the AH the unique ogive profile getting outrun by the HH when velocities start dropping, meaning past a certain range.

Really I'm just finally getting a threaded 30-06, it was the last rifle I had I couldn't suppress.

 

[CMP70306]

I was a bit disappointed to hear that the 180 HH outruns the 178 AH past 500 yards because I was planning on using them in a 300 RUM... so I bought some 180 HHs for the RUM and a new 30-06 to shoot the AHs. Win-win all around.

Does the 180 HH have the better BC between the two of them ? At some point the BC takes over, and trumps higher initial velocity - seems like that might be what you're commenting on with these two bullets.

The 181 HH has a BC of 0.272 while the 178 AH has a BC of 0.203, I bought the 178's right after they were introduced and before they had a BC listed. Checking the ballistics I came to the conclusion that even with a 200 fps head start the AH hit 1800 at 720 yards while the 181HH make it to 860.

With the BC being so different I'm choosing to run the 178 AH in my brothers 30-06 and use the 181 HH in the .300 Win Mag.

In the smaller diameters the difference is much smaller, for example in the .264 cal the 123 AH is 0.229 while the 124 HH is 0.245, this means that the AH only has to go 80 FPS faster to match the HH. Since I could get the AH 150 to 200 fps faster out of my 6.5 PRC I went with them over the HH.

 

[budlight]

Those bullets coming apart in your 9 twist are more than likely more so from a rough throat than the twist...

Two factors made them come apart. Mainly FPS exceeded the bullets design in conjunction with rpm. I would tend to say that the 52 grain were thin softer copper and they say that it's feasible that the lead core can become molten from barrel friction.

Some bullets are even sold with max velocity warnings

 

[nicholasjohn]

The 181 HH has a BC of 0.272 while the 178 AH has a BC of 0.203, I bought the 178's right after they were introduced and before they had a BC listed. Checking the ballistics I came to the conclusion that even with a 200 fps head start the AH hit 1800 at 720 yards while the 181HH make it to 860.

With the BC being so different I'm choosing to run the 178 AH in my brothers 30-06 and use the 181 HH in the .300 Win Mag.

In the smaller diameters the difference is much smaller, for example in the .264 cal the 123 AH is 0.229 while the 124 HH is 0.245, this means that the AH only has to go 80 FPS faster to match the HH. Since I could get the AH 150 to 200 fps faster out of my 6.5 PRC I went with them over the HH.

If you look at the step-down in diameter from the top of the ridge on the shank to the bottom of the relief groove, it would be a slightly larger drop on the AH than on the HH. The AH looks like it has an ogive that starts at the diameter of the bottom of the relief groove, while the HH has one that starts at full bullet diameter. This would create a bit of a shoulder, which probably causes a little more drag at what might be a critical point on the ogive. What this does to the effective BC of these bullets would not make a noticeable difference until several hundred yards down-range, but the difference would be real.

It looks like you've cracked the code and determined that using the HH for the cartridge that has the longer range capability - where the difference is more significant - and using the AH for the cartridge that is used at somewhat shorter distances where starting velocity is still the more important factor in the equation. I would think that the difference in these diameters would be less on bullets of smaller diameter, and the difference in BC's should be smaller for that reason. They are probably about the same on a percentage basis, but percentages aren't what goes into the calculations. Is your 1800 fps number coming from the velocity at which terminal performance becomes questionable for these bullets ?

 

[Wedgy]

Keep in mind the whole idea of the AH was to eliminate YOUR barrels effect on the BC of the HH, each barrel being different. While the measured BC of the 181 HH may be .272 measured from the barrels they shot it from , your barrel may degrade it to something much less and the only way to know would be to shoot it and measure the drops and see how it stacks up against the AH.

 

[QuietTexan]

Exactly, the AH has the ogive it does for a reason. Hopefully it's going to benefit me in two primary ways - better velocity with the lower start pressure, and no COL issues with mag fitment.