Inconsistent rifle due to recoil/muzzle climb

Depending on recoil - caliber ect i have always understood many guns move straight back around 3/8 of an inch before the pill exits. Daryl hollands video from the american gun smith institution( long range shooting) circa 1999?) pointed this out as well. Its not a problem if you postured well and gun can slide straight back to shoulder. Also, your swivel stud snagging a bag will flip your muzzel up when snagged under recoil. That will show up on your groups.
Solution: make sure rifle comes straight back on recoil. Nothing hanging it up.
 
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Depending on recoil - caliber ect i have always understood many guns move straight back 3/8 of an inch before the pill exits. Daryl hollands video from the american gun smith institution( long range shooting) circa 1999?) pointed this out as well. Its not a problem if you postured well and gun can slide straight back to shoulder. Also, your swivel stud snagging a bag will flip your muzzel up when snagged under recoil. That will show up on your groups.
Solution: make sure rifle comes straight back on recoil. Nothing hanging it up.
theres no specific rule as to how far the bullet passes during free recoil. However the remedy in solution is true.

Even shooting in the prone vs on bench changes muzzle velocity. So yes recoil management does affect accuracy, but the human factor related is how your technique effects the guns overall harmonics. It's a huge factor in ES and why dope doesn't perfectly align on a ballistic calculator. It's a reason why 3 people (good shooters) can shoot a zero'd rifle at 100y and get different POI.

The confusion is why it is vertical stringing.
 
dfanonymous,
action is bedded and all fasteners torqued accordingly. I agree with you on recoil not coming straight back.

Same performance off a good front rest and bipod. I've tried all manners of controlling the recoil from as minimal as possible to really baring down on the rifle. Best groups were when I truly manhandled it.

how long does it take you to do your shot group? Also how long is the barrel?
 
theres no specific rule as to how far the bullet passes during free recoil. However the remedy in solution is true.

Even shooting in the prone vs on bench changes muzzle velocity. So yes recoil management does affect accuracy, but the human factor related is how your technique effects the guns overall harmonics. It's a huge factor in ES and why dope doesn't perfectly align on a ballistic calculator. It's a reason why 3 people (good shooters) can shoot a zero'd rifle at 100y and get different POI.

The confusion is why it is vertical stringing.
The 3/8 inch not a rule...no....
The rear swivel snagging could be the vertical stringing....
 
IMO, shooting a light barrel sporter off the bench may require additional attention to controlling pre-exit barrel rise compared to heavier rifles. I have had some lightweights that were no-problem to shoot well, others that were a lost cause without major modification(change of rifle components). While a muzzle brake may make the rifle more pleasant to shoot and perhaps reduce flinching/distraction, it's not going to effect the pre-exit dispersion. Realizing some have been already mentioned some of these ideas in this thread, I listed those that I have found that have minimized the barrel jump and improved accuracy for me:
-Rifle hold. Apply "rearward" pull off the stock and fore-end, practicing consistent pressure. VERY light cheek weld. Too heavy and you may be inducing muzzle rise. The mention of using a straighter grip, IMO, is valid in that it does two things. It enables greater leverage and more consistent rearward pressure, and, with bench and prone shooting positions that are "elbow down", ithe straight grip maintains a straight wrist, providing a more comfortable shooting position and less tendency for the wrist to act as a pivot during recoil. In the absence of a straighter grip, you can place a support under your elbow to straighten the wrist.
-Most sporters have an angled bottom surface butt that may exaggerate the muzzle rise with a flat surface rear support. Modify the rear rest to correct for this. Also, make sure front and rear swivel studs do not interfere with the rest. Make sure the rests are solid with no play or movement....during recoil.
-While this is a subject of debate, in my experience(and shooting style), I have found that with a light weight/heavy recoil rifle, there needs to be sufficient over-travel with the trigger; enough to allow the bullet to exit the barrel before reaching the hard stop.
Just some thoughts.
 
I had the same situation with a Weatherby Vanguard Sub MOA in .300wsm. I changed the barrel to a #4 Bartlien, sanded out the barrel channel to fit and attached a 5 port brake. Gun shoots 1/2 moa all day.
 
Good idea. I'll call McGowan tomorrow and ask about their brake.

Going to a proof is definitely on the list.
I have a McGowan barrel it's a #8 28 inch on a Stevens model 200, which for those that don't know is savages low cost line of rifles. It still runs a savage action on it. Anyways, with the McGowan barrel the muzzle brake works great but it will require some adjustments on your sight in as it has ports all the way around it. Also if your not wanting to spend the money on a proof barrel you could always get another one made from McGowan with a slightly heavier profile.
 
lookong for some thoughts, ideas, suggestions on this.

Here is the set up:
Savage 116
McGowan sporter barrel
.280ai, 1:9 twist
BC sporter stock

Loads: 160AB, 168vld, 162 eldx

I put this gun together for a mid-weight hunting gun. It weighs just under 8lbs. The issue is that the muzzle climb on it is insanely violent. The best groups come when I literally force the gun into the bags and force it down. Obviously this is not consistent or good with a hunting rifle .

Some paths I'm looking at:
-try 140 class loads. Not real keen on this, but a thought.
-add a Witt clamp on brake. Not a huge fan if the bulkiness.
-tear it apart and put on a proof. Would require ordering a stock...and a long wait. Spendy...

I've had others shoot the gun with the same results and responses on the climb/recoil.

Thoughts/ideas?
I have several high powered rifles. I put American Precision Fat Bastard muzzle brakes and Limbsaver recoil pads on every one of them, making them a pleasure to shoot. My 6 year old especially enjoys shooting the 338 LM.....
 
You already have it built and it doesn't work right. My suggestion, full length bed the barrel from the recoil lug forward. That will both stiffen the stock and effectively stiffen the Barrel. Melvin Forbes makes all of his NULA rifles that way. I have had excellent results bedding quite a number of sporter and pencil barrels this way. They shoot much better, far more consistent cold bore and next two shot POI performance, and it does help tame muzzle lift. At least give it a try, cheap and easy to do yourself and far easier than a full rebuild with new barrel, stock etc.
 
lookong for some thoughts, ideas, suggestions on this.

Here is the set up:
Savage 116
McGowan sporter barrel
.280ai, 1:9 twist
BC sporter stock

Loads: 160AB, 168vld, 162 eldx

I put this gun together for a mid-weight hunting gun. It weighs just under 8lbs. The issue is that the muzzle climb on it is insanely violent. The best groups come when I literally force the gun into the bags and force it down. Obviously this is not consistent or good with a hunting rifle .

Some paths I'm looking at:
-try 140 class loads. Not real keen on this, but a thought.
-add a Witt clamp on brake. Not a huge fan if the bulkiness.
-tear it apart and put on a proof. Would require ordering a stock...and a long wait. Spendy...

I've had others shoot the gun with the same results and responses on the climb/recoil.

Thoughts/ideas?


It's obvious that the severe recoil / muzzle jump is affecting accuracy before
the bullet exits the bore. The notion that there is no recoil until the bullet
exits the bore is nonsense. In this case weight and a good muzzle brake
should help. I have a Savage model 10 in 308 with a HS precision stock.
I filled the void in the stock with #8 lead shot and then injected some
silicone into the hole to stop the raddle, and then some epoxy to close
the hole. Shoots like a kitten, a tack driver, and no muzzle brake. Not
ideal for hunting but I don't mind carrying the extra weight.
 
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