Inconsistent rifle due to recoil/muzzle climb

[Dirty45]

lookong for some thoughts, ideas, suggestions on this.

Here is the set up:
Savage 116
McGowan sporter barrel
.280ai, 1:9 twist
BC sporter stock

Loads: 160AB, 168vld, 162 eldx

I put this gun together for a mid-weight hunting gun. It weighs just under 8lbs. The issue is that the muzzle climb on it is insanely violent. The best groups come when I literally force the gun into the bags and force it down. Obviously this is not consistent or good with a hunting rifle .

Some paths I'm looking at:
-try 140 class loads. Not real keen on this, but a thought.
-add a Witt clamp on brake. Not a huge fan if the bulkiness.
-tear it apart and put on a proof. Would require ordering a stock...and a long wait. Spendy...

I've had others shoot the gun with the same results and responses on the climb/recoil.

Thoughts/ideas?

 

[MudRunner2005]

The bullet has left the barrel before ANY recoil or muzzle movement has begun to move the point where it would affect accuracy.

I think you're subconsciously flinching before pulling the trigger because you're anticipating the violent recoil, therefore your pulling your shots.

 

[Barrelnut]

A stock with a square butt and not much drop at the comb can help. Look at the profile on a lot of Weather by stocks. The Weatherby profile is made to allow the rifle rise on recoil. You want the opposite of that design. On the bench you can also move the front rest back closer to the balance point on the rifle ( closer to the action); this puts more weight in from of the pivot point.

 

[Dirty45]

Mudrunner, I get where you're coming from. But I really believe it's a barrel whip issue. I have much harder kicking guns that I shoot good. I also had others sho are known good shooters produce the same result. The gun has a big muzzle rise as opposed to a straight rearward kick.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Mudrunner, I get where you're coming from. But I really believe it's a barrel whip issue. I have much harder kicking guns that I shoot good. I also had others sho are known good shooters produce the same result. The gun has a big muzzle rise as opposed to a straight rearward kick.

If the barrel is too thin and causing barrel whip, then I'd change the barrel. There is no real way to fix a barrel that's too thin or a rifle that's too light, without putting a heavier/thicker barrel on it.

The best option for lighter weight and stiffer barrel with as little barrel whip as possible is a carbon fiber wrapped barrel.

 

[can1010]

have you called McGowan and asked about sending it back to have their brake installed?
look at stocks with a straight comb and a more vertical grip that will help alot

 

[Dirty45]

Good idea. I'll call McGowan tomorrow and ask about their brake.

Going to a proof is definitely on the list.

 

[jimbires]

I had a rifle that acted like you're saying , I put a different brake on it . problem solved . give Nathan at https://muzzlebrakesandmore.com/ a call , he'll get you fixed up .

 

[dfanonymous]

Mudrunner, I get where you're coming from. But I really believe it's a barrel whip issue. I have much harder kicking guns that I shoot good. I also had others sho are known good shooters produce the same result. The gun has a big muzzle rise as opposed to a straight rearward kick.

Barrel whip isn't as much of an issue as flex of the stock or action screws coming loose or bending. If you haven't already try torquing the max factory recommended spec on the action screws and blue threadtite them. If it's the stock then, idk, guess you'll have to get a better chassis or stock...
Most likely it IS recoil not coming straight back if none of those.

 

[Dirty45]

dfanonymous,
action is bedded and all fasteners torqued accordingly. I agree with you on recoil not coming straight back.

Same performance off a good front rest and bipod. I've tried all manners of controlling the recoil from as minimal as possible to really baring down on the rifle. Best groups were when I truly manhandled it.

 

[Shane Lindsey]

If it is on the "light" side, I have found that I have to put a little more man into it than my heavier ones. Maybe try loading some of the lighter monos and see how they do or do the opposite and try and load heavy and see if it changes anything. My sporter weight 30-06 does similar. I have found I am able to control it a little better with lighter pills up to 180 gr.

Not sure on the vertical grip stock suggestion. Mine currently sits in a GameScout.
Before this it was in an HS Precision. Better and more consistent groups came with the HSP.

 

[lancetkenyon]

1. Muzzle brake
2. Shooting form
3. Load development w. Ladder test

 

[Mustang72]

You might try one of those little limbsaver donut looking things just to see if anything changes. I haven't ever used one but they are cheap to try. Don't know how long or thin your barrel is but if nothing else works you could buy a crowning tool and cut it down 1/2 inch at a time. Shorter barrels tend to be a little stiffer than longer ones if every thing else is the same.

 

[LDHunter]

Dirty,

What do your groups look like? Are you only getting vertical stringing?

I've used a lot of lightweight rifles with skinny barrels and finally gave up getting good accuracy from skinny barrels. What I have found that works in lightweight rigs is medium weight barrels, quality and well bedded stocks and being familiar with shooting lightweight rifles and pulling the butt back against my shoulder by gripping the wrist and pulling back with my trigger hand.

Putting downward pressure on any part of any rifle when you shoot is never something that is repeatable especially on any hunting rifle in the field.

Another thing. The excessive muzzle rise you're reporting when you shoot makes absolutely no sense at all. You need to figure out what is causing this. I'm not familiar with your stock but unless it has much drop at the comb then it baffles me unless it's just that you aren't used to shooting a lightweight rifle with a "magnum" cartridge and what you're experiencing is the way lightweight rifles recoil.

I have a couple of 7mmSAUM rifles that weigh in at 6.5 pounds unscoped and when I shoot 160gr and heavier bullets I get muzzle rise and maybe I'm just used to it after over 40 years of shooting lightweight rifles but it doesn't affect my accuracy. I think the 7SAUM has very similar ballistics to the 280AI.

My take on muzzle brakes is that unless they're needed on a rifle with truly shoulder damaging recoil due to heavy projectiles being propelled at high velocities such as a 338 Lapua or 50BMG is that they make a lot of hearing damaging noise and cover up the symptom of a poor stock design or overall weight issue.

Not everyone should be shooting heavy recoiling rifles. It's simply too much trauma for many to handle. Look at video of people shooting lightweight magnum rifles and decide whether or not you are willing to subject yourself to that. It's not something we talk about much but it's akin to a the noise of a close up rock band at a concert and being punched very hard in the shoulder. A lifetime of shooting can make us numb to it but there are many physical maladies that can result from it with serious hearing loss despite our use of premium hearing protection being the most noticeable.

I've opted to put up with it due to my commitment to hunting medium to large game with what I consider adequate firepower and my love for making lightweight rifles shoot but I sometimes wonder if it's worth it. LOL

$bob$