Improving the 308 Win performance

[Huntz]

Two comments,#1 Do you test your loads using a strain gauge? #2 There aint no free lunch!

 

[VinceMule]

My family has killed a LOT of deer with the Sierra 135g Single Shot Pistol bullet with a load of 49-52g of Win 748 out of all kinds of 308's. Since the 135 is discontinued, 125g Sierra Pro hunter took up the slack. Since the 125 is AWOL, then the 130g barnes has stepped in with the 125g Sierra tipped game king also being loaded.

Brother is shooting the Barnes, I have not.

If I could get my hands on any, I would buy ten boxes of the Nosler 125g Accubond.

We have also worked up loads for the '06 with the Barnes and the Sierra 125g tipped, no reports on deer kills past 300 yet.

One thing for sure, in the 308's, all the 125-135g bullets with Win 748 are just incredibly accurate with groups typically being 1/2" and often much less.

 

[Mike D Texas]

He still ain't wrong though

Nyuk nyuk nyuk!

So the 308 shooting 2800fps is slow and sucks but the big 338s that shoot 2800fps don't suck?

 

[Mike D Texas]

Sorry for the discourtesy there. I'm John. I mostly hunt the Texas hill country, but will likely be spending more time further west soon. I aspire to learn as much as I can about hand loading. My favorite rifle right now is a Bergara Ridge Wilderness in 6.5PRC with a Zeiss, but I've also got room in the safe for a .30-06, .270, .22-250 and various other chamberings not as well suited for longer range tasks.
I find that .3sl0w8 fans tend to be the most arrogant of all chamberings (even Creed guys!), despite the fact that it's really just a neutered .30-06 that was built to reduce recoil and fill a need for semi-auto and full auto fire- not designed for accurate long range shooting… so I'm guilty of taking some pleasure in jeering them a bit more than I probably should.

I find the Hornady Creedmoor/PRC leg humpers to be much more easily butthurt and defensive when their perceived holy cartridges are noted that they are nothing special.

 

[nralifer]

Just trying to help out some lost souls that want to shoot a thirty cal long range by directing them to select cartridges that have sufficient case capacity to propel heavy for caliber projectiles.

I reiterate, the point of this post is to give the guy with a 308Win ways of significantly improving the performance of his rifle. Going to a larger capacity case is not needed advice here. By using superior powders, bullets and brass, the 308Win can do almost anything the 300WM can do with inferior components. It also prevents guys from spending money on a new rifle, unless he just simply wants to. As a hunting rig the 308Win can cleanly kill anything in North America especially if Badlands Bulldozers are used.

My family has killed a LOT of deer with the Sierra 135g Single Shot Pistol bullet with a load of 49-52g of Win 748 out of all kinds of 308's. Since the 135 is discontinued, 125g Sierra Pro hunter took up the slack. Since the 125 is AWOL, then the 130g barnes has stepped in with the 125g Sierra tipped game king also being loaded.

Brother is shooting the Barnes, I have not.

If I could get my hands on any, I would buy ten boxes of the Nosler 125g Accubond.

We have also worked up loads for the '06 with the Barnes and the Sierra 125g tipped, no reports on deer kills past 300 yet.

One thing for sure, in the 308's, all the 125-135g bullets with Win 748 are just incredibly accurate with groups typically being 1/2" and often much less.

Good. So there is room for a higher BC125 mono metal bullet. Gel tests should tell me at what velocity it will expand. One thing is clear, they push very well and their BC is high. 3200+ fps is safely and easily achieved. The minimum velocity expansion will determine the potential effective range.

 

[nralifer]

Easiest way to improve .3sl0w8 performance is to use the full sized cartridge instead.

So what's wrong with improving the 308Win performance if you already have one.

This is interesting, I have never owned a 308 have been a 300 win mag guy. Back in the day when I could only afford 1 hunting rifle compared the 308, 30-06 and the 300 win mag. At the time early 90s seemed to me for the performance 30-06 better than the .308, the 300 WM better than the 30-06. Rifles were about the same price, 308 was a lighter rifle, 300 win mag boxes of ammo was a bit more pricey than either. I did not get into reloading for a few years back then, but have always wondered could you tweak the .308 a bit to be comparable to the 30-06. The next time I looked at the .308 was when I purchased a couple of those 6.5 Creedmoors, yep drank the Hornady cool aid. But the round has always interested me as the rifles are lighter by about a lb or more when compared to a 30-06 or a 300 win mag.

It is really an excellent hunting round and easy to get to shoot accurately. Components are easily found. My absolute favorite load ia 49-50 gr of Leverevolution, a 150 gr Badlands BD2 bullet with a BC that exceeds virtually all 168s shot out of my 20" barrel at 2950 3000 fps. Have used it for years. I prints 0.5 MOA three shot groups and penetrates deeper than any lead core bullet making quartering shots though the chest DRT shots. On its own it is an excellent and deadly hunting round at reasonable distances. It is also very economical to reload. I don't like belted cartridges, that's just me, and within 600-700 yds with our bullets I can kill stuff just as dead as one can with 300WM using lower BC copper core bullets. Guys who have 308Wins should be interested in this thread and not feel short changed with a 308Win. The application of these bullets to the 30-06 will likewise improve it's performance.

 

[nralifer]

Sorry for the discourtesy there. I'm John. I mostly hunt the Texas hill country, but will likely be spending more time further west soon. I aspire to learn as much as I can about hand loading. My favorite rifle right now is a Bergara Ridge Wilderness in 6.5PRC with a Zeiss, but I've also got room in the safe for a .30-06, .270, .22-250 and various other chamberings not as well suited for longer range tasks.
I find that .3sl0w8 fans tend to be the most arrogant of all chamberings (even Creed guys!), despite the fact that it's really just a neutered .30-06 that was built to reduce recoil and fill a need for semi-auto and full auto fire- not designed for accurate long range shooting… so I'm guilty of taking some pleasure in jeering them a bit more than I probably should.

This thread is not intended to prove the superiority of the 308Win. It is intended to improve its performance for those who have one.

 

[xsn10s]

It's just a tool.

 

[QuietTexan]

So the 308 shooting 2800fps is slow and sucks but the big 338s that shoot 2800fps don't suck?

 

[nralifer]

So the 308 shooting 2800fps is slow and sucks but the big 338s that shoot 2800fps don't suck?

Two comments,#1 Do you test your loads using a strain gauge? #2 There aint no free lunch!

With respect to your first comment, if you have a strain gauge apparatus you wish me to use, send it on. The primer flattening indicator is qualitatively accurate enough to know when the upper limits of safe pressure are reached. With respect to #2 I agree, but higher energy powders (J/gram) produce higher velocities at safe pressures. LVR seems to have been able to produce the highest velocities safely of any powder I have tested including SBM and Varget. The photo below shows the primer with enough flattening that I would consider that load the upper limit (53 gr LVR using the 125 gr BD-2 prototype MV 3310 fps 24" 1:9). No other pressure signs were noted. Do we need 3300 fps from that bullet? Not really. 3200 fps will do just fine at significantly lower pressure.

 

[nralifer]

How adequate any given MV depends on the situation, the bullet drag, and the intended distance.

 

[yobuck]

When you start talking killing elk....
from experience if they are excited or alerted...... Like a whitetail deer only worse....
they can seem running on pure adrenalin juice....
and your talking going for one hell of a walk.....
Yes..... you can kill an elk with a .22 RF....
Trust me...... use enough gun and save on your legs.....
OMHO.... let the flames roll.....

Theres only one way to learn that kind of stuff.

 

[Spoonbill]

This thread would be dedicated to ways to improve the performance of the 308 Win or the 7.62x51 mm cartridge without wildcatting the case. Experienced and innovative reloaders should find this interesting and are encouraged to participate. The 308Win is so versatile, inherently accurate and commonly used, and yet its performance in terms of MV, trajectory and speed is a bit mediocre. I am sure it can out perform the 3006. To start with I offer up my favorite hunting load I have used for the past 6/7 years in the 308Win. The 150 gr BD or BD2 with 49 gr of Leverevolution going 2920 fps from a 1:10, 20"Douglas barrel in a short action rifle. The same load from a 24" Bartlein 1:9 twist barrel goes 3050 fps. This load would be a pretty decent long range Elk load to 900 yds or so.

This is a great thread. I have just purchased a custom 308 but with a much shorter barrel (20") thand standard. I am just thingking about loads, building load ladders, et. Al. so I will be asking some relatively simple questions relating to reloading. Can anyone identify the BD or BD2 mentioned here?? I n addtion, I've heard of exceptional results with Varget and 4320 powders as well. Lastly, is anyone using magnum primers or is the consensus to use Large Rifle Primers??

 

[h_1ag]

Just trying to help out some lost souls that want to shoot a thirty cal long range by directing them to select cartridges that have sufficient case capacity to propel heavy for caliber projectiles.

The original post isnt to convince someone to go bigger…we all are probably aware there are bigger cartridges…the intent is to maximize the .308. Recommended reading all

The original post isnt to convince someone to go bigger…we all are probably aware there are bigger cartridges…the intent is to maximize the .308. Recommended reading all the posts

This is interesting, I have never owned a 308 have been a 300 win mag guy. Back in the day when I could only afford 1 hunting rifle compared the 308, 30-06 and the 300 win mag. At the time early 90s seemed to me for the performance 30-06 better than the .308, the 300 WM better than the 30-06. Rifles were about the same price, 308 was a lighter rifle, 300 win mag boxes of ammo was a bit more pricey than either. I did not get into reloading for a few years back then, but have always wondered could you tweak the .308 a bit to be comparable to the 30-06. The next time I looked at the .308 was when I purchased a couple of those 6.5 Creedmoors, yep drank the Hornady cool aid. But the round has always interested me as the rifles are lighter by about a lb or more when compared to a 30-06 or a 300 win mag

This is interesting, I have never owned a 308 have been a 300 win mag guy. Back in the day when I could only afford 1 hunting rifle compared the 308, 30-06 and the 300 win mag. At the time early 90s seemed to me for the performance 30-06 better than the .308, the 300 WM better than the 30-06. Rifles were about the same price, 308 was a lighter rifle, 300 win mag boxes of ammo was a bit more pricey than either. I did not get into reloading for a few years back then, but have always wondered could you tweak the .308 a bit to be comparable to the 30-06. The next time I looked at the .308 was when I purchased a couple of those 6.5 Creedmoors, yep drank the Hornady cool aid. But the round has always interested me as the rifles are lighter by about a lb or more when compared to a 30-06 or a 300 win mag.

At risk of further offending the delicate sensibilities of a handful of guys that seem very serious about squeezing the last bit of performance out of .308, I'll respond anyway. Anything you can do with

speed isn't everything