Idaho Investigating Technology Limitations for Rifles

[Ol' Red]

Clearly, this is all caused by guys shooting T-rex on the moon with the 6.5 CM.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

 

[Flatbow]

Very differing opinions across the board.
Mine is a little more on the lines of "Fair chase" if that is what you like to call it.
I do agree with limiting electronics that attach directly to your weapon of choice. Also, that "primitive weapons hunts" should be just that. It should be more focused on the experience of hunting the way it used to be. Using skill and woodsmanship to get as close to the prey as possible in order to make a clean kill.
The use of too much technology in these short range weapons hunts will increase kill rates to the point that we will be seeing shortened seasons.
That actually extends to any weapons seasons as well.
I tend to agree with Idaho's tendency to be on the more restrictive side of regulations.
Has more to do with keeping hunting opportunities better and less to do with controlling overreach.

 

[BrentM]

I put in an application to be on the committee. Speculation vs reality. There are limits already on a lot of the weapons used to hunt game. It is not a surprise to see some discussion pertaining to the long range game. I am friends with a few officers who deal with the general public and the long range hunter wannabe is exactly what you think it is. It's a sh!t show of people who have no business hunting at the distances they do. So, pulling back on the reins of conspiracies etc I appreciate the fact the department is willing to hear folks out and make decisions for the future on hunting in Idaho vs just using their own opinion. I have a feeling, speculation, that the focus will be more on the fully integrated systems vs the range, dial, and shoot most on here understand. The modern lazy long range guy wants to hit an easy button and turn hunting into a video game. Literally put the cross hair on the target and let the auto trigger send the round.

 

[xsn10s]

As far as a conspiracy theory/ speculation I've watched the same tactics happen in California. In fishing, hunting, and firearms in general. I see the red flags. My 2 cents from the peanut gallery.

 

[Ol' Red]

I put in an application to be on the committee. Speculation vs reality. There are limits already on a lot of the weapons used to hunt game. It is not a surprise to see some discussion pertaining to the long range game. I am friends with a few officers who deal with the general public and the long range hunter wannabe is exactly what you think it is. It's a sh!t show of people who have no business hunting at the distances they do. So, pulling back on the reins of conspiracies etc I appreciate the fact the department is willing to hear folks out and make decisions for the future on hunting in Idaho vs just using their own opinion. I have a feeling, speculation, that the focus will be more on the fully integrated systems vs the range, dial, and shoot most on here understand. The modern lazy long range guy wants to hit an easy button and turn hunting into a video game. Literally put the cross hair on the target and let the auto trigger send the round.

I see your point. Just watched a You tube video of a guy shooting a deer at a very long range. He hit it, but the deer was left flopping around injured and slowly dieing while two guys high fived and hugged, and thanked God for the shot. There has to be a balance.

 

[xsn10s]

I see your point. Just watched a You tube video of a guy shooting a deer at a very long range. He hit it, but the deer was left flopping around injured and slowly dieing while two guys high fived and hugged, and thanked God for the shot. There has to be a balance.

I see his point also. And there's the hook. Get some knowledgeable people to side with their efforts gives them validity. And next thing you know it's a "bipartisan" effort. That's part of the tactic. Exactly why we've seen some side with the Sierra Club. Which is why I don't give them an inch anymore.

 

[BrentM]

I see your point. Just watched a You tube video of a guy shooting a deer at a very long range. He hit it, but the deer was left flopping around injured and slowly dieing while two guys high fived and hugged, and thanked God for the shot. There has to be a balance.

We have a new and growing population of people who think Idaho is the wildwest and can do whatever they want. Riding off trail, tearing up the hills, riding wrong vehicles on designated trails, clearing and creating their own camping spots, parking their trailers in the mountains for as long as they want to hold a spot all summer, buying hunting gear (especially archery) that they have never used and go hunting, the list goes on and on. The map of Idaho hunting and recreation has changed and will change to stop the issues and it sucks. However, these people cannot self police so policy and enforcement will have to do it. Archery is one of the biggest issues we have in my opinion. The equipment today is good, very very good. People can pick up the bow and shoot very well without much practice. The issue is in the field all that changes and they are not experienced enough to figure it out. Same with long range rifles. Most people shoot off a freaking bench on a calm day, hit a 2 foot plate at 1000 1x, and feel like they are good to go. There are far more people who fit this category then actual true sportsmen and marksmen. Last time I shot the archery course with my recurve I joined up a random crew. It was awful seeing these guys shoot. Same with the long range course, I just get very discouraged with the lack of discipline.

 

[xsn10s]

We have a new and growing population of people who think Idaho is the wildwest and can do whatever they want. Riding off trail, tearing up the hills, riding wrong vehicles on designated trails, clearing and creating their own camping spots, parking their trailers in the mountains for as long as they want to hold a spot all summer, buying hunting gear (especially archery) that they have never used and go hunting, the list goes on and on. The map of Idaho hunting and recreation has changed and will change to stop the issues and it sucks. However, these people cannot self police so policy and enforcement will have to do it. Archery is one of the biggest issues we have in my opinion. The equipment today is good, very very good. People can pick up the bow and shoot very well without much practice. The issue is in the field all that changes and they are not experienced enough to figure it out. Same with long range rifles. Most people shoot off a freaking bench on a calm day, hit a 2 foot plate at 1000 1x, and feel like they are good to go. There are far more people who fit this category then actual true sportsmen and marksmen. Last time I shot the archery course with my recurve I joined up a random crew. It was awful seeing these guys shoot. Same with the long range course, I just get very discouraged with the lack of discipline.

I respect and admire Brent. But it sounds like the policy is already in there to prevent this. So the problem lies in enforcement. If you cannot enforce existing laws then new ones won't do a bit of good. The antigun movement is perfect proof of this.

 

[TxHeartShot]

We have a new and growing population of people who think Idaho is the wildwest and can do whatever they want. Riding off trail, tearing up the hills, riding wrong vehicles on designated trails, clearing and creating their own camping spots, parking their trailers in the mountains for as long as they want to hold a spot all summer, buying hunting gear (especially archery) that they have never used and go hunting, the list goes on and on. The map of Idaho hunting and recreation has changed and will change to stop the issues and it sucks. However, these people cannot self police so policy and enforcement will have to do it. Archery is one of the biggest issues we have in my opinion. The equipment today is good, very very good. People can pick up the bow and shoot very well without much practice. The issue is in the field all that changes and they are not experienced enough to figure it out. Same with long range rifles. Most people shoot off a freaking bench on a calm day, hit a 2 foot plate at 1000 1x, and feel like they are good to go. There are far more people who fit this category then actual true sportsmen and marksmen. Last time I shot the archery course with my recurve I joined up a random crew. It was awful seeing these guys shoot. Same with the long range course, I just get very discouraged with the lack of discipline.

Yep...shot with two guys at American Shooting in Houston on the 600 yd range with their little creedmoors getting ready for an elk hunt. They couldn't shoot for ****, surprised they hit the berm! I asked how they qualified to shoot on the 600 range, they said "what? qualify?" That's right boys, gotta put 5 shots in row in a 6" bull at 300 yds to come over here..."sorry" they said, "we're just sighting in our rifles and wanted to make sure they were sighted in at 600 yards!"

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Its a fine line on fair chase but we need to focus on why is an agency considering this? Has there been any documented issues?

Documented issues with people shooting too far? Of course. The mere presence of all the LR shooting/hunting content across all platforms has penetrated most hunter's conscience. Whether they buy the gear, practice, understand, etc at times can be besides the point. There's a buck/bull 900 yards away, they heard people kill em that far, so why not take a pot shot.

IMO, equipment that allows people to make a good shot like range finders and reliable dialing scopes is the wrong way to go about it. I'd be more into a generic range limit than saying you cant use range finders and x power scopes.. That doesn't result in more wounded game.

 

[BrentM]

I respect and admire Brent. But it sounds like the policy is already in there to prevent this. So the problem lies in enforcement. If you cannot enforce existing laws then new ones won't do a bit of good. The antigun movement is perfect proof of this.

Maybe you know more about the committee than I do. I am trying to join it so I can find out more and have input if needed. Enforcement has nothing to do with skill of the hunter and it has to do with the current technology available. Right now the restrictions for rifle are basically no electronics attached to the rifle or scope. The exception is illuminated reticles were allowed a few years back. I am not sure how far down the rabbit hole this headed but I am thinking it is simply to address the fully integrated systems and their use. It might be also to try and restrict the current platform, that I am not versed in yet. Of course I will argue against the restriction of LRF's and tactical scopes. I think those are basic tools, like a sight on a bow with multiple range capabilities.......ie all modern sights these days. So how do they intend to address the ethics or long range hunting........ down range knock down powa? Kenitic energy? Caliber and cartridge restrictions? Skills testing? Restricted range? Eliminating LRF's, BDC reticles, tactical turrets....... I simply don't know at this point.

 

[quigley257]

I feel that any advancements/technology that allow a sportsman to cleanly take game are a good thing. That being said, I'm also of the opinion that some laws do more harm than good. Case in point, the non-toxic shot regulation for waterfowl. My personal opinion is that far more birds are crippled and lost to steel shot than there have been birds saved from lead ingestion. Similarly, I grew up in Minnesota where "automatic hook setters" are not legal for fishing. I now live in South Dakota where devices like the Jaw Jacker and Automatic Fisherman are legal and used by many during winter ice fishing. These automatic hook setters have the advantage of setting the hook immediately when the bait is picked up, versus letting the fish swallow it before the fisherman can get to the line and set the hook. This is particularly helpful when fishing lakes and rivers with size slot limits. a deeply or gut hooked fish has a much lower survival rate than one that was hooked in the mouth. Hunting tech is no different. You may choose to hunt with a bow, muzzle loader or handgun because you enjoy that they present you with more of a challenge than rifle hunting. I don't feel that government should be making laws to limit tech/advancements that lead to cleaner kills and more effective hunters. Just my $.02

 

[xsn10s]

Maybe you know more about the committee than I do. I am trying to join it so I can find out more and have input if needed. Enforcement has nothing to do with skill of the hunter and it has to do with the current technology available. Right now the restrictions for rifle are basically no electronics attached to the rifle or scope. The exception is illuminated reticles were allowed a few years back. I am not sure how far down the rabbit hole this headed but I am thinking it is simply to address the fully integrated systems and their use. It might be also to try and restrict the current platform, that I am not versed in yet. Of course I will argue against the restriction of LRF's and tactical scopes. I think those are basic tools, like a sight on a bow with multiple range capabilities.......ie all modern sights these days. So how do they intend to address the ethics or long range hunting........ down range knock down powa? Kenitic energy? Caliber and cartridge restrictions? Skills testing? Restricted range? Eliminating LRF's, BDC reticles, tactical turrets....... I simply don't know at this point.

It's the first I've heard of Idaho's efforts. But that tactics are the same, and this is knowledge hard learned from 50 years of watching similar efforts in action. I can understand the anger with destruction of our wildlife and pristine outdoors. but the type of regulations and restrictions sound much like what I've heard happen in Europe. As far as long range hunting the only way to determine one's capabilities is to test them. So then the next step is to have a class that must be attended and then test. Who determines the criteria? Who sets the range? Do you see the rabbit hole? I've seen the good intentions for firearms safety in kali with their testing/ classes. Sounded good, poor in practice.

 

[xsn10s]

In the end it will restrict our rights. Look to see if animal populations are being hurt first. Then limit tags and increase penalties for laws broken. Bring hunters in for reporting violations or poor hunting practices. There are a lot of ways to protect our wildlife and wild areas. The way I see it if people can't self regulate them the hunting population will need to be brought in for reporting violations. Otherwise we'll have government regulate.