RAGGED EDGE
Well-Known Member
After having resisted as long as I could, I'm in line to get the first shot tomorrow. Moderna. Stay loose. I'll keep youall posted. Wish me luck.
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I will not be getting 'the vaccine'...
- Thread starter Hand Skills
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As Biden said "you don't deserve to know"
I will submit a different experience. I am currently in Italy. If you recall it was ravaged pretty "hard" in the beginning with COVID. I wouldn't call the first go around as bad as it is currently here nor even a pale comparison to the **** show that is the US. The death rate among the elderly here was astonishing and especially terrible given how they are revered here. It is just accepted as the new normal now.
Italy was locked down. When I say locked down I mean enforced by the Police. You had to have papers just authorizing you travel from your home to work otherwise you could be fined 1300 Euro or detained. Masks were (and a year later) still are mandatory outside of ones own home.
Italy was able to suppress the infection rate down to nearly zero. Using masks, social distancing, contact tracing and isolation of infected persons.
Read the tables at the link:
www.worldometers.info
Then a second wave of infection began after restrictions were lightened. They were not lifted, they were reduced. You still needed a mask within 6 feet of non-family members.
The lock down began again but it was too late (look at the upward trend). It took a full month of complete lockdown (again, can't go anywhere, need papers to travel) to reverse the trend - it is still slowly going down.
When I say lock down I am talking about para-military police at the round-abouts with submachine guns and check points where they check your papers and then decide to go through your vehicle or not looking for whatever they feel like.
The bottom line is the virus is deadly to some but it is very contagious. The problem is it impacts people in different ways and with some people not at all, they simply transmit the virus to others. I had a coworker who tested positive and never had a symptom and another who's Italian girlfriend was positive along with her entire family and he never got it (unknowingly shared same bed with her while she was positive).
Being 46 and healthy I chose to take the vaccine and received my second dose of Modern this morning, 28 days from the first dose. I had a sore arm for a day or two but that happens with Flu vaccine each year as well.
I have had the Flu after receiving a Flu vaccine but I was up on my feet in days vice the week for my daughter who opted out. Even if this vaccine has a shred of hope to reduce symptoms or prevent infection, I am taking that. You don't plan on getting in a car wreck but you most likely wear a seatbelt - I wear mine because of the other idiots on the road.
I think it is a personal choice to be personally responsible when it comes to getting the vaccine and nothing more. Do what you think is right for you but continue to do what is right for everyone else.
Side note: It will take something more than masks and travel restrictions to end this - look at Italy's data.
Italy was locked down. When I say locked down I mean enforced by the Police. You had to have papers just authorizing you travel from your home to work otherwise you could be fined 1300 Euro or detained. Masks were (and a year later) still are mandatory outside of ones own home.
Italy was able to suppress the infection rate down to nearly zero. Using masks, social distancing, contact tracing and isolation of infected persons.
Read the tables at the link:
Italy COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer
Italy Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.
www.worldometers.info
Then a second wave of infection began after restrictions were lightened. They were not lifted, they were reduced. You still needed a mask within 6 feet of non-family members.
The lock down began again but it was too late (look at the upward trend). It took a full month of complete lockdown (again, can't go anywhere, need papers to travel) to reverse the trend - it is still slowly going down.
When I say lock down I am talking about para-military police at the round-abouts with submachine guns and check points where they check your papers and then decide to go through your vehicle or not looking for whatever they feel like.
The bottom line is the virus is deadly to some but it is very contagious. The problem is it impacts people in different ways and with some people not at all, they simply transmit the virus to others. I had a coworker who tested positive and never had a symptom and another who's Italian girlfriend was positive along with her entire family and he never got it (unknowingly shared same bed with her while she was positive).
Being 46 and healthy I chose to take the vaccine and received my second dose of Modern this morning, 28 days from the first dose. I had a sore arm for a day or two but that happens with Flu vaccine each year as well.
I have had the Flu after receiving a Flu vaccine but I was up on my feet in days vice the week for my daughter who opted out. Even if this vaccine has a shred of hope to reduce symptoms or prevent infection, I am taking that. You don't plan on getting in a car wreck but you most likely wear a seatbelt - I wear mine because of the other idiots on the road.
I think it is a personal choice to be personally responsible when it comes to getting the vaccine and nothing more. Do what you think is right for you but continue to do what is right for everyone else.
Side note: It will take something more than masks and travel restrictions to end this - look at Italy's data.
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I read every one of the posts on here and never saw anything on the farce that is the main test for covid19. The PCR test is the most widely used for covid19 . The test magnifies DNA to search for the virus. Each magnification is call a cycle . The CDC set the recommended cycle number at 40 . ANY CYCLE OVER 26 WILL GIVE FALSE POSITIVE RESULTS IF YOU HAVE HAD THE COMMON COLD IN THE PAST . The CDC knew full well the results would be skewed if they recommended 40 cycles magnification . The liberal NYT even ran a article were they found that as much as 90% of PCR tests are false positives ! After about 3 days , the article vanished and the fear mongering resumed at the NYT.
If you add to that the fact that the powers that be mandated all elective surgeries be put on hold during the pandemic , its obvious hospitals were strong armed into scribbling covid19 down as the cause of death on basically everyone so they could get the government kickbacks OR go bankrupt and close their doors. Elective surgeries are how hospitals make their money.
There are other glaring red lights that prove the massive blowing up of the virus by the WHO, CDC, and governments across the world, but just these 2 things can easily account for 100s of thousands of misdiagosises and fudged causes for death.
Im sorry, but allowing the CDC to shoot something in my arm with their track record on this virus is fool hearty in my mind. In this divided country we find ourselves in now, i don't trust any bureaucracy with my wellbeing.
If you add to that the fact that the powers that be mandated all elective surgeries be put on hold during the pandemic , its obvious hospitals were strong armed into scribbling covid19 down as the cause of death on basically everyone so they could get the government kickbacks OR go bankrupt and close their doors. Elective surgeries are how hospitals make their money.
There are other glaring red lights that prove the massive blowing up of the virus by the WHO, CDC, and governments across the world, but just these 2 things can easily account for 100s of thousands of misdiagosises and fudged causes for death.
Im sorry, but allowing the CDC to shoot something in my arm with their track record on this virus is fool hearty in my mind. In this divided country we find ourselves in now, i don't trust any bureaucracy with my wellbeing.
Sadly........ I feel the same way
My Grandma passed two weeks ago, she was 95 and lived a wonderful life and she was ready to go, my point here is she was in a nursing home, no one was allowed to visit for 8 months, (strict quarantine) she had double pneumonia and a terrible urinary tract infection and told the doctors " no more meds", they tested her 4 times in a two week period before she passed, 3 negatives but the 4th was a winner and she died classified as a covid fatality, They made a victim out of a beautiful Woman who lived a beautiful life, it makes me sick to think about it
This very thing has happened literally thousands of times. Sorry for your loss and all else who have suffered in this time. As others have said this is a bad deal but we will never know the real truth behind this whole thing. Growing up a farm kid we deal with disease and sickness all the time with our livestock, remember WE are animals too, some things you can vaccinate for and some things just have to run thier course. Viruses do what they do. Mask or no mask, quarantines or none they WILL do what they do and this one is no different. As hunters and outdoorsman we all have seen Mother Nature be a very cold and creul woman. When things get out of wack far enough we've all seen what can happen. EHD in the deer, botulism in waterfowl, the list goes on. All usually when things get a bit crowded. Not a Dr here but dont need to be to see whats up here. We don't get to choose the when and why and where we check out. I'll take my chances and pass
Varmint Hunter
Well-Known Member
I guess the Covid issue will be argued for quite some time. Who died of what and why? In the end, the simplest measure of the Covid impact may simply be the "excess death" toll. The actual number of deaths that exceeds the norm is hard to argue about.
it is a shame that it is all about the money you have to remember the government reimburses more for covid death
Hand Skills
Well-Known Member
I'm glad the PCR test was brought up. I would give a lot more credit to the NON-ELECTED BUREAUCRATS who are making decisions if it werent for this.
Governments (and many doctors I know) are treating a COVID PCR test like a pregnancy test. Either an individual has COVID or they don't, right?
Not exactly. Here is a video explaining what a PCR test is, and how it works.
The PCR test does not test for infection. That's why someone can test positive and be ASYMPTOMATIC.
...just like someone could receive the vaccine and TEST POSITIVE FOR COVID. A few replies in this thread imply that taking the vaccine is a social responsibility. I believe these individuals are just parroting what they hear, because if they read the LABEL ON THE VACCINE they would know that the vaccine is not shown to prevent transmission of the virus.
There are more viruses on the face of the earth than there are stars in the galaxy. There are viruses in every breath we take. If a person looks closely at the TERRAIN around themselves, well, it can raise some questions.
Governments (and many doctors I know) are treating a COVID PCR test like a pregnancy test. Either an individual has COVID or they don't, right?
Not exactly. Here is a video explaining what a PCR test is, and how it works.
The PCR test does not test for infection. That's why someone can test positive and be ASYMPTOMATIC.
...just like someone could receive the vaccine and TEST POSITIVE FOR COVID. A few replies in this thread imply that taking the vaccine is a social responsibility. I believe these individuals are just parroting what they hear, because if they read the LABEL ON THE VACCINE they would know that the vaccine is not shown to prevent transmission of the virus.
There are more viruses on the face of the earth than there are stars in the galaxy. There are viruses in every breath we take. If a person looks closely at the TERRAIN around themselves, well, it can raise some questions.
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Bullmark
Well-Known Member
Kudos, for truer words have never been spoken......the truth always lies somewhere in the middle.
The big problem with this issue is accessing information that is genuinely accurate and complete.
Even the mortality rate, which is an important benchmark, is skewed by manipulation. Ordinarily, this measure would be a fair gauge of reality. Yet political and financial power has been a motivating factor in contriving Covid deaths. I have witnessed this with my own eyes.
But no one can deny the suffering endured by many in the higher risk category, and some in the outlier ranks.
The question I'll need to answer is, do I take a vaccine for a virus with a survival rate of "X"??? It would be nice to have a reliable reporting of "X", but I've concluded that we don't....However, it appears "X" does get smaller as one gets older, which makes sense. Since I just turned 51, I find myself in the middle....just like the truth.
Another Casual
Well-Known Member
Yes mother nature is cold, but you cannot wash your hands of this. It's not going to "do what it does" no matter what. Masks, distancing, quarantine can slow or stop the spread of it.
The situation is dire, but let's not pretend we are without tools to fight it or that the choices we each make have no impact. The outcome is not preordained or inevitable if WE take it seriously. If everyone goes around coughing in eachother's faces it will be much worse, if everyone wears a mask it will be much better.
I apologize but I disagree
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