I Hate Hammer Bullets!

[Laguna Freak]

No, he plainly stated that he wants ANY reason, whether you have or have not used his bullets, as to why you hate them.
Read the first post.
I know exactly who RamTruckMan is BTW.

Cheers.

Quote from Steve's OP; "I have one rule for this thread. I do not want any satisfied Hammer users to post on this thread. I don't want anyone to stick up for Hammer Bullets."

Seems pretty simple and clear to me. Of course, I do not struggle with reading and comprehension of the English language. So, all of the complimentary Hammer posters to this thread either do struggle with reading and comprehension, or they simply do not care to respect the OP's "one rule for this thread." Which utterly devalued the thread with a whole pile of irrelevant drivel. IMO

I don't mind you questioning my assessment but you might want to study up a bit first.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I have to say it is quite obvious to me that this thread was started for the sole purpose of a member on here selling bullets that doesn't like his product bashed…….there is no other logical conclusion to be made.
As I stated early in the piece, I neither like, dislike or hate Hammer BULLETS, BUT I am sick and tired of the bickering, hijacked threads and the constant pushing of a product in threads that have NOTHING to do with the threads question.
Sure, I am opinionated about what bullets work, I bash Hornady bullets because they are cheap junk, but I do not spend every minute of my time on here doing so.
I get that people like them, I get that people have opinions, I also get that opinions are like a holes, everyone has one.
Steve, I have the utmost respect for you, but starting this thread has waned me from you just a little, it may have even swayed me from trying your bullets…..haven't decided yet.

Cheers.

It can't be that hard to see why I started the thread. I will lay it out just in case. I started this thread so that those who are offended by me, Hammer Bullets, or those who like Hammer Bullets, could get it out in the open whatever they think is their legitimate reason for their Hammer hatred. By doing this I would have a chance to address whatever issue it is. Did I think I was going to change the mind of the guy that hates Hammer Bullets, even though he has not used them, because there is a lot of people that like them and are willing to tell about them? No. Did I think I could shed some light on how ridiculous it is to hate on a product for no logical reason? Kinda. Did I think I might get some feedback that is useful? I hoped. Mostly I wanted to put light on the ridiculousness of Hammer hatred. The kind of hatred that inspires members to start threads in support of any copper bullet that can be found for the purpose of changing the narrative from Hammer Bullets. When that person admits that he is doing so because he wants Long Range Hunting not to be about Hammer Bullets. Kind sad really.

So far I have learned that people hate Hammer Bullets because the bc is not high enough, that they are too expensive, and there are too many people that like them. The 3rd reason seems to be the overriding contributor to Hammer hatred. Interesting, since it is the least logical reason. Maybe in the end everyone that reads this thread will pipe down a bit. Nobody needs to get mad about bullet choices and nobody needs trash a product that they have never used. I find it odd that there is sides taken on a shooting product, a bullet. I find even more odd that the sides seem to be drawn between those who have used the product and like it and those who have not used it and hate it. Yes hate is a strong word but I can't think of another one to describe the feeling that someone has that would compel them to trash talk, openly or underhandedly, a product that they have never even used.

So in the end I hope this has opened the eyes of people who like Hammer Bullets. Maybe sometimes you don't need to be so defensive or too forward in promoting the product. Go easy. Maybe those who have irrational issues with our product will have now seen that maybe they just need to take a breathe. Life is too short to get knotted up because there is bunch of people that are excited about relatively new product to the market.

I will finish reading everything that was posted today and answer everything that I can. I will then bow out of my thread. Len can do as he likes with this thread. As far as I am concerned it can be left open as a safe place to vent frustration for those who need to go somewhere to get it all out. I still discourage anyone from trying to take on or defend Hammers from any of the negative, irrational Hammer hatred. Nothing good will come from it.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I'm going to chime in just for fun and reference back to Steve's OP.

I read only 6 pages then I couldn't bear to waste any more of my time. In my opinion most of you (man-bun or not) guys and gals have completely ignored Steve's request in his premise for this thread because you just can't resist putting your voice out there (much like I am doing now on page 20-something to criticize you). I challenge you to read through 20+ pages and glean anything of substantive benefit to the OP.

Steve wants to understand legitimate criticism of his product. What's more, he specifically requested criticism only and no favorable reviews. Good grief! Y'all could not even do that…. In 6 pages I read 3 actual criticisms, maybe 4.

1 cost
2 erratic or perceived variable BC
3 poor penetration experience
4 haadji said the Hammer he shot produced 4" group at 100 yd. But then his solution is to re-barrel.

Good luck Steve with getting much useful info out of this self-absorbed gaggle of shooting experts.

Rant over.

Really I hoped for legitimate criticism, but knew that there would be little. I knew there would be lots of illegitimate criticism and wanted it collected in one spot.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

What a waste of time this thread has been. Now I will never buy these bullets . I have 50 years of hunting behind me without using them and will be fine without ever using them.

This makes sense.

 

[Rick Richard]

RIP….thread.

 

[Laguna Freak]

Really I hoped for legitimate criticism, but knew that there would be little. I knew there would be lots of illegitimate criticism and wanted it collected in one spot.

Yes sir. I gathered that from your OP. Good luck to you.

Edit: With a substantial investment of your valuable time, you may glean some positive lessons from your endeavor in this thread. Thank you for supporting LRH.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I haven't used hammers yet but the thing that gives me a Pause is the weight retention. I am hunting in Alaska mainly for moose. I have to worry about some bears too. I would prefer high weight retention and deeper penetration while shooting smaller .30. 308,30-06,and 300wsm

Hey J V,

Penetration is a very interesting subject. Weight retention has a pretty big role in it, but not nearly as much as I ever thought. We have seen through impact testing that a bullet that sheds some weight will out penetrate a heavier bullet that sheds no weight. It comes down to stability. After impact all bullets start losing their rotational vel rapidly. Pretty much every bullet will upset from its path once the rotational vel slows enough to cause the retained portion to yaw or even tumble. So even though a bullet has more retained energy and momentum there is a probable chance that a shorter retained shank of less weight will actually out penetrate because it will remain point on longer keeping it in straight line penetration longer. As soon as a bullet loses stability and turns it then is no longer traveling nose forward and catches much more surface area and slows down and stops more rapidly.

Our Hammer Hunter bullets are 60% to 70% weight retention, for the most part, depending on nose length and the Shock Hammers are 75% to 85% Weight retention.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Steve, have you considered making a tipped copper bullet that would not shed its peddles? Would that solve the terminal problems you were having and allow for a higher BC design? Might give your customers more options, especially if you could figure a way to get them open at less velocity than your competitors.

We aren't having any terminal problems. And no we would not consider a bullet that does not shed the petals. If we have a bullet that doesn't shed the petals we would almost consider it a failure. We want the petals off as rapidly as possible.

Tips we continue to mess with. So far we have not been able to get one that will work as well as the current line of Hammers, without tips, at low vel. We won't market a bullet that does not work as well for terminal performance and call it a hunting bullet. If we can ever get a tipped bullet to work as well as an open hollow point, we will be all over it. And I would have to eat crow!

 

[RockyMtnMT]

One other thought that's free lol. You said lead nosed bullets expanded easy and that lead acted like fluid and copper bullets needed fluid to function. What if you put lead into the open cavity of the bullets out the tip to a point to make more aero dynamic or tip it with the lead in cavity would that solve the terminal issues and raise the BC? The lead might throw off the bullets balance don't know, just a thought.

I like the thought. I could actually have some merit. I think we will likely stay away from lead though. Also I think back to the exposed lead tip bullet days and them smashing flat in the magazine and how it drove my ocd mind nuts.

 

[Pdvdh]

If we can ever get a tipped bullet to work as well as an open hollow point, we will be all over it. And I would have to eat crow!

Hahaha... Crow can be good eating!

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I have never fired a Hammer bullet at an animal. The only time I've shot them was through my 257 Roberts that had a new Bartein on it and wasn't broke in yet. My velocities kept climbing, so I was unable to gather meaningful data. Ended up creating a load with 115gr Partitions to go deer hunting with this fall.

I would like to know how long it will be to ship my order when I place it. Do you have a 2 week order/production/shipping turnaround time? 10 days? 3 days?

I'd also like to see larger quantities (500+) available with much better pricing if possible. 15, 50, or 100 count is fine for initial development and testing, but if I find a great load giving me great groups, I'd like to be able to order a bunch of them so I have the same lot number/generation.

Load data. I know you said you are working on load data, but I'd like to see some basic guidance. Example: 85gr AH in 6.5 Creedmoor. Give me 4 powder choices to start development. I don't need charge weights.....but having factory direction on powders that are known to work would be most helpful.

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what "let it eat" means? BB has great advice and is quite helpful, but dang....define the sayings...

Keep up the good work

Let it eat. Kinda like let that dog hunt. Lol! Let it do it's thing.

As far as box qty. At this point we are running with one size box. 3.4"x3.4"x1.7". Generally we have the bullets available in qty's that will fit in the box. Good news you can order multiple boxes.

We are generally getting orders out within a day or so of receiving the order. Mondays we play catchup from the weekend. Sometimes we have to go hunting too.

Hammer Hunter and Shock Hammer bullets will line up pretty nicely with conventional lead core bullet load data. The Hammers will show a bit less pressure, so if you use a start load for a like weight bullet and work up from there you will be in good shape. We reference Nosler and Hodgdon data mostly. Nosler is hotter and lines up pretty close.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Quote from Steve's OP; "I have one rule for this thread. I do not want any satisfied Hammer users to post on this thread. I don't want anyone to stick up for Hammer Bullets."

Seems pretty simple and clear to me. Of course, I do not struggle with reading and comprehension of the English language. So, all of the complimentary Hammer posters to this thread either do struggle with reading and comprehension, or they simply do not care to respect the OP's "one rule for this thread." Which utterly devalued the thread with a whole pile of irrelevant drivel. IMO

I don't mind you questioning my assessment but you might want to study up a bit first.

I agree that I did not get just me and the folks that have a problem with Hammer Bullets. I did get a lot of irrelevant drivel from those who have a problem with Hammer Bullets. I did my best to address every issue.

 

[nealm66]

What's the difference between a heavy hammer and hammer hunter?

 

[RockyMtnMT]

What's the difference between a heavy hammer and hammer hunter?

Really nothing. I wish I had never come up with the "Heavy" moniker. It came when we were trying to make the heaviest possible bullet for the slow twists and still have a point on it. They are a Hammer Hunter with a longer baring surface and nearly a flat base. Also a bit shorter nose than typically on the Hammer Hunters.