I Hate Hammer Bullets!

[RockyMtnMT]

I hate the fact that they are not readily available in Canada. I hate reading about how good they are and not able to try some out for myself!

Canadians can order directly from our website. Also George's Shooting Shack in Canada is selling Hammers.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I have bought a ton of hammers and have used them in several rifles with great results.

I do find myself going back to bergers for a true long range setup because the BC is so much better.

It's been said before but the low BC is definitely a turn off. (and the BC's I've found from drops are ALMOST always significantly lower than advertised.

Higher BC increases my effective range and this is a long range hunting forum after all.

One final thought: I don't magically get an extra couple hundred FPS with these bullets like apparently everyone else does.

That being said I did just go on an international hunt and elected to take my 300 WM with 181 hammers going 3175 FPS, but I limited myself to 600 yards.

Hated that limit the whole hunt

This is fare. All I can say is we shoot long range a lot. Sometimes the bc is lower than published and sometimes it is higher. Usually it is pretty close. As I have said before, every now and then there is a rifle that tanks the bc like the bullet was shot base first.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I have bought a ton of hammers and have used them in several rifles with great results.

I do find myself going back to bergers for a true long range setup because the BC is so much better.

It's been said before but the low BC is definitely a turn off. (and the BC's I've found from drops are ALMOST always significantly lower than advertised.

Higher BC increases my effective range and this is a long range hunting forum after all.

One final thought: I don't magically get an extra couple hundred FPS with these bullets like apparently everyone else does.

That being said I did just go on an international hunt and elected to take my 300 WM with 181 hammers going 3175 FPS, but I limited myself to 600 yards.

Hated that limit the whole hunt

Also. We don't see that kind of speed increase from the Hammer Hunters or Shock Hammers. In most rifles we see 50 to 100 fps over conventional bullets of the same weight.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Steve - you aren't going to get the input you want because most critics of Hammer bullets get banned from this site, yet your fanbase can do whatever they want with no consequences. You criticize hammer, you get banned. This is my opinion, but I know others share it. Here is some honest criticism:

1. Anytime another highly respected individual in the industry criticizes either monos or bcs, or your bullets performance you put them down to build yourself up. It is very off putting. Brian Litz and the guy who made the video posted by Feenix is an example. You come across as an arrogant A hole a lot of times when you could let your product speak itself.

2. You are always down playing BCs. No other bullet manufacturer makes excuses for their BCs like you do. It varies from rifle to rifle, you can never get them accurate etc. I NEVER hear another manufacturer do that. They post a relatively accurate BC on their website and we all make adjustments in our Ballistics software. Its ridiculous that you continue to do so. Just say my bullets BCs suck, they weren't meant for long range hunting, accept it and move on. I do believe that you intentionally posted higher BCs than were realistic on your site to appeal to the LRH crowd, but that is just my opinion, its hard to prove intent.

3. Your silence or smart A comments in threads where your fanbase is acting inappropriately is just as damning as you joining in and saying those things. It comes across as if you know they are defending you and you approve of the behavior.

4. I don't see it as hate for hammer bullets, I see it as hate for you and your fanbase based on behavior. Just look at this thread, you have supporters defending critical comments even though you asked them not to. Its absurd.
You can see every body is scared to be truly honest or critical for fear of getting banned. It almost always leads to a confrontation and a ban. Guys are tip toeing around the issues.

5. You get extremely defensive anytime there is criticism…you say you can take it and that you want it, but your behavior suggests otherwise sometimes.

Just for creating an account and voicing this I know my time on here is limited and I am guessing this post will be deleted. Just some honest thoughts, from some redneck that owns a lot of guns and shoots a lot of stuff…

I don't think you will get banned. I think the only way Len would ban you is for calling people names. I try not to be an a hole but I guess not successfully.

I will say I do not lie about our product or what we do. I do defend myself and our product. I do not police supporters of Hammer Bullets. I have corrected things that have been said in favor of Hammer Bullets that I disagreed with.

As a Hammer hater I think you did the other haters proud.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

You are correct. I chose the word in the title intentionally because it is over the top.

Well said…and, if I may add one thing, I am sick and tired of the overuse and inappropriate use of the adverb "hate" … "hate" is a personal term…can't we as adults just say we like or dislike a PRODUCT…come on folks

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I don't hate any bullets. I don't like that people are shut down in this forum for expressing their opinions. I and others have seen it. That's my belief anyway. If that is associated with a particular product it will not reflect well in marketing. You're feeling the effects obviously or you wouldn't have posted this thread.

I've always liked the innovation you bring to hunting bullets. They have attributes I like and some I don't, like BC and price, but I'd use them if I lived in a state that bans lead core bullets. They would probably be my first choice.

I started the thread because the last few weeks there has been threads started for no other reason than to try and damage Hammer Bullets. Those doing so try to camouflage their intent but it is obvious what the intent is. I would rather have it out in the open. Also I want the opportunity to address whatever issue shows up without folks that feel the need to defend us interjecting and causing emotions to rise.

I was out of town yesterday and am now trying to catch up. One post at a time. The thread grew a bunch yesterday so hopefully it didn't get out of hand.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I have contemplated trying Hammers and the only the only thing that has stoppd me is that I have emailed them through their site many months ago , about 6, and again about a month ago and have never gotten a response from them. I have had some questions but they don't seem interested in answering them. Surprised their lack of supporting a new customer.

That would be my bad. I spend most of my days anymore answering emails and phone calls. About the only time I fall behind is if we are out hunting. I try to catch up when we get back but I know I miss some.

You are welcome to call me or Brian. 406-262-0010 or 406-262-5102 respectively. We are generally in the shop Mon-Fri for too many hrs. We work hard to not miss contacts from customers. My apologies.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Ok, you asked for the reasons I dislike hammers.
1. Only joined a month and a half ago and when someone says , oh that's a hammer, are they talking about a rifle or a bullet? I can't get used to the name.

2.never even heard of this brand of bullet let alone tried one,
So went to web site and the Bc listed is g7 instead of g1 ,like my bullet of choice does.
I like my over .500 g1 and like to compare apples to apples.
3. the price for 15 sample bullets.
4.I'm not going to give you about 10 ,( one liners with the word hammer in them ) .
5. the idea of changing bullets , after years of using my brand of choice doesn't sound good.
6.when I am forced by out of state regs to switch to non lead , I might have to hammer out an alternative.

The term Hammer has always been used as a good thing in the shooting world and sports in general. That is how I came up with the name. It is easy to remember, sounds good, and looks good. One of the best decisions we made.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Ok, you asked for the reasons I dislike hammers.
1. Only joined a month and a half ago and when someone says , oh that's a hammer, are they talking about a rifle or a bullet? I can't get used to the name.

2.never even heard of this brand of bullet let alone tried one,
So went to web site and the Bc listed is g7 instead of g1 ,like my bullet of choice does.
I like my over .500 g1 and like to compare apples to apples.
3. the price for 15 sample bullets.
4.I'm not going to give you about 10 ,( one liners with the word hammer in them ) .
5. the idea of changing bullets , after years of using my brand of choice doesn't sound good.
6.when I am forced by out of state regs to switch to non lead , I might have to hammer out an alternative.

Oops touched the post button.

You are no different than most shooters. Most are reluctant to try something new when they have success with a product they are currently using. Plus the work that was likely done to get success with the product currently used. A legitimate reason not to use Hammers for sure. A reason to not like them, not do sure about that. Maybe one day we will have you as a customer, hopefully.

 

[bamban]

I guess this is a joke? Or you just don't like Sherman's or Hammers because others do and are vocal about it?

Smile... life is too short not to have fun...

 

[Christensen 7mag]

My only complaint is they don't go in the same exact hole lol. 3 shot group 200 yds 300 rum 178 absolute hammer

 

[LRNut]

This thread is hilarious. If you don't like Hammers, don't use them.

In the interest of controversy, let's talk about Bryan Litz's WEZ analysis vs shooting animals at 1200 yards. In Bryan's analysis, you have no business shooting that far simply due to math. Maybe I should start a new thread...

 

[RockyMtnMT]

It is simply the over the top supporter base that won't leave open discussion alone. To fuel the fire I understand one of the most obvious "apologist's" received a rifle for their efforts.
I ordered a sample of your bullets recently. They are beautiful pieces, but I'm finding in MY unique application they don't fulfill my requirements. Heaven forbid I that I just said that out loud. I've already got an inbox full from folks jumping my @ss.

Thanks for bringing this up. Butterbean reluctantly tried Hammers a couple years ago on insistent persuasion from another member here that started using them in the beginning. They did everything that he wanted from a bullet. We have never given him anything. He is a vet and had never taken the vet discount that we offer in our checkout page that is there to take on the honor system. I had spoken to him on the phone like I do many customers. When he heard about my son's death he sent me a framed Bible verse that I found comforting. It sits in front of my desk. He never asked for anything. When he heard that we were having a memorial for my son he showed up a few days ahead of time in our shop. This guy was standing in our doorway and I had no idea who he was. He introduced himself. I was glad to meet him in person but had no idea why he was in town. I asked him what brought him to our neck of the woods. He told us he came for the memorial and came a few days early to help anyway he could in the shop. Put me to work he says. This guy came half way across the country to support a guy he had never met. I don't think I know anyone else that would do this. We paid him for his help in the shop with a t-shirt, a hoodie, and a hat. Which he took reluctantly.

We have grown to be friends with a group of guys over the last few years that are customers of ours. It has come up in conversation about Butterbean and his hatred (ironic) of the Creed how much fun it would be to give him one for Christmas. Just so happens that we had one that we paid all of $250 dollars for when we first started making bullets that we used for testing. We volunteered it for the sake of the Christmas roast. It was some of the best fun I have had in some time. So if you want to call that payment for services you couldn't be more wrong.

I am starting to see a trend in this thread that Butterbean is the reason that folks are going to use for hating Hammers. This also seams irrational to me.

He is a big boy that makes his own decisions. He doesn't take any marching orders from us, or anyone else for that matter. I have no more control over him than I do any of you. I could ask him to never publicly support our company again and he would honor the request. I'm not going to do that. He helps way more people than he puts off. Is he brash in his tact? Sho nuff! Does anyone wonder what he thinks? Nope. Is he a good man that I am lucky enough to call my friend? Yes. He told me not to tell anyone that he had done those things, so hopefully I have not offended him and his wishes to be kept private. Bean I'm sorry.


So here is my final thought on this. There is a bunch of you that need to put your feelers away. I'll stop there before I turn into an a hole.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I can't bash them because I've never used them. But I do have questions about them? My basic question is to their "long range" capability as this is a long range forum. Pretty much everything I read on here is about someone who praises the merits of hammers, but they are pushing light for caliber bullets at extreme velocities. As I understand it, this is in contradiction to what would normally be considered a long range set up, i.e., heavy for caliber and high bc's. I can see that, that recipe is functionally effective on game and would serve the average hunter well by eliminating range estimation/hold-over within their "normal" ranges. Do hammer bullets that are heavy for caliber and pushed at 'normal" velocities exhibit the same type of effectiveness on game as their lightweight, high velocity counterparts? Are they equally or more effective at long ranges as bullets of other composition(all other things being equal of course and provided the shooter does his part)? Why? Thank You.

A big part of the answer to your question is a question. What is long range? That answer is different for most hunters.

For many we can achieve their long range needs with a lighter bullet running very fast better than they could cover those needs with a heavy for caliber, high bc, low velocity bullet. Physics says that the higher bc, lower velocity bullet will pass up the faster, lower bc bullet at some point down range. Often that point of passing is farther out than is usable for hunting for a given user.