I Hate Hammer Bullets!

[eoperator]

I do not want to ruffle any anti fan boy feathers so criticism only here.

My observations of digging bullets from sand backstop (100yrds through cardboard target 1st) is that hammers at or near minimum twist do not always shed petals and penetrate perfectly as over twisted hammers do. It seems as if one petal opens a bit and pulls or bends bullet changing the direction of penetration. I have not seen this at all with hammers 1" over minimum twist.

So my question to Steve would be, is this a real issue or is a sand backstop test completely irrelevant?

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

I do not want to ruffle any anti fan boy feathers so criticism only here.

My observations of digging bullets from sand backstop (100yrds through cardboard target 1st) is that hammers at or near minimum twist do not always shed petals and penetrate perfectly as over twisted hammers do. It seems as if one petal opens a bit and pulls or bends bullet changing the direction of penetration. I have not seen this at all with hammers 1" over minimum twist.

So my question to Steve would be, is this a real issue or is a sand backstop test completely irrelevant?
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Me personally I'd say sand backstop is irrelevant. I've dug my far share of bullets from a sand back stop though and usually at least with cup and core they seem to expand ok. Been years since I've done that though

 

[Pdvdh]

I'd like a tipped Hammer bullet, no matter your previous explained experiences of poor expansion at lower velocity. Tipped bullets can provide reliable expansion. Perhaps the tipped versions you've experimented with didn't have the Midas touch. A larger tip diameter at the base of the tip will help, by creating greater force against the leading edge of the copper bullet. A deeper or larger diameter hole in the copper bullet, which accepts the tip, will also help initiate copper bullet expansion by reducing the force required to initiate copper nose flare out / expansion.

I've been shooting tipped copper monolithic bullets for at least 4 seasons now. Proving deadly on game, with very minimal meat destruction. No failures to expand so far... But I must add, I've not yet shot an animal past 625yds thus far.

Tipped bullets have been in use forever in lead jacketed bullets. An optimized combo of tip design will overcome your experiences of expansion failures at lower velocities, in my opinion. There's nothing that hydraulic fluid acting on the hollowed tips of your bullet is accomplishing, that a solid tip inserted into a hollow cavity, can't also accomplish.

As you know, my opinion can be lacking humility.

 

[Deviant]

I'd like a tipped Hammer bullet, now matter your previous explained experiences of poor expansion at lower velocity. Tipped bullets will work. Perhaps the tipped versions you've experimented with, didn't have the Midas touch. A larger tip diameter at the base of the tip will help, by creating greater force against the leading edge of the copper bullet. A deeper or larger diameter hole in the copper bullet, which accepts the tip, will also help initiate copper bullet expansion by reducing the force required to initiate copper nose flare out / expansion.

I've been shooting tipped copper monolithic bullets for at least 4 seasons now. Proving deadly on game, with very minimal meat destruction. No failures to expand so far... But I must add, I've not yet shot an animal past 625yds thus far.

Tipped bullets have been in use forever in lead jacketed bullets. An optimized combo of tip design will overcome your experiences of expansion failures at lower velocities, in my opinion. There's nothing that hydraulic fluid acting on the hollowed tips of your bullet is accomplishing, that a solid tip inserted into a hollow cavity, can't also accomplish.

As you know, my opinion can be lacking humility.

I would love to see an aluminum tipped hammer myself.

 

[Calvin45]

I built the infamous .270 Win (Thors Hammer) last summer exactly on that premise. I sent 2 rounds loaded with 156HH (which I had never shot from any rifle beforehand) to Preferred Barrel with throat dimensions I wanted to max out a 700LA max COAL. It came back perfect and the .270TH delivered much higher velocities that I thought likely nor anyone else here on LRH that "entered" the max ladder test I did on LRH just to have some fun. Though @Calvin45 virtually nailed it with guess of 3277! Not sure of his crystal ball but it was close at max of 3284! I had shot the 117HH in an old Savage 110C that had shorted max COAL but I had faith in the product for accuracy and terminal performance so I built the rifle specifically for this heavier bullet that required 1:8 twist. The rifle shoots sub 1/2 MOA and I killed my biggest buck this fall. Bullet performed perfectly. Was it a gamble? Maybe to some but I had faith in the QC of the product and was comfortable doing it.

I had almost forgot about that velocity pool! Had fun with that and was honestly just being an idiot…couldn't believe it when I was closer to the truth than all of the "non-idiots" participating!

If you recall, my "crystal ball" was that most reasonable guesses were already take and I joined late, and being that it was a .277" caliber rifle, I just put 277 after 3, 3277, for humour. The truth was funny I guess

 

[Buckys]

There seems to be need for those who hate Hammer Bullets to have a place to vent. So, I decided it would be a good idea to make a place for that to happen. There is no need to hold back here. Let it out. Nobody has to be sly in starting threads that are anti Hammers by saying it is about more choices. Just let it out here. This is a safe place to do it. It is pretty evident that most who hate Hammer Bullets have not used them but have formed a hatred just the same. Let us know how you got this hatred. We don't learn anything about our bullets this way, but we might learn something about marketing. If there are those that hate Hammer Bullets that have used them, please post here. We do learn from these instances and will use that information to get better.

I have one rule for this thread. I do not want any satisfied Hammer users to post on this thread. I don't want anyone to stick up for Hammer Bullets. I am willing to take what comes here and I will monitor the thread and I will handle any defense needed. I don't want this to turn into one side vs the other and have the thread shut down due to infighting.

Let's go.

My perception of Hammers is that you need to be ready to push the envelope on velocity and pressure and very adept at reading pressure signs to do so.

Since I started reloading a couple of years ago and I tread very carefully, I struggle to justify the cost of the bullets knowing that the ROI is not something that I can achieve until I'm prepared to push the velocity envelope.

For me, it is not really that different than buying the best brass that money can buy - after 3x use, they go to a bin reserved for days down the road when I have a better understanding how to judge their remaining mileage or up for sale to fund the purchase of new brass.

But from a marketing perspective, the perception that a good level of expertise is needed to justify the cost of Hammer bullets is likely limiting your "total available market penetration". That is unfortunate for me as a bullet that will work perfectly from 0-500 yards is very much ideal for me.

 

[milo-2]

Odd man out here, my gun forum and social media life became easier when I quit reading opinions. For every 2 failures there are 5 success stories, for every 2 you cannot live w/o this, there is motive, lol
One forum member, cannot recall which forum, became irate with me over a "what the pros use" post. I posted that finding out what underwear they wear and buying some may be the closet you will come to their level of success.

 

[JRJ448]

I've never shot a Hammer bullet, but I held a 375 CheyTac cartridge loaded with a Hammer… I thought it was hideous, and undesirable to look at. The bullet had ribs out beyond the neck of the case. Just ugly.
Seriously though, the "Shock Hammer" looks like something you'd expect to find at Spencers Gift Shop…

 

[CMP70306]

I've never shot a Hammer bullet, but I held a 375 CheyTac cartridge loaded with a Hammer… I thought it was hideous, and undesirable to look at. The bullet had ribs out beyond the neck of the case. Just ugly.
Seriously though, the "Shock Hammer" looks like something you'd expect to find at Spencers Gift Shop…

Kills bison just fine at 1500 fps impact velocity.

 

[RamTruckMan]

Kills bison just fine at 1500 fps impact velocity.
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You guys just can't help yourselves can you? The owner has specifically asked you guys to stay off this thread. Another thread taken over by the fanbase…this is why people hate hammer.

 

[CMP70306]

You guys just can't help yourselves can you? The owner has specifically asked you guys to stay off this thread. Another thread taken over by the fanbase…this is why people hate hammer.

And the guy above implied they looked like a sex toy, which one is more relevant to the discussion?

I have three boxes of hammers on my shelf sitting next to thousands of Berger's, Hornady's and about half a dozen other manufacturers that I use in the majority of my rifles. They work for my intended purposes of hunting out to 500 yards in cartridges with 3000+fps impacts but they aren't the end all be all bullet and are a small minority of the total bullets I shoot.

 

[southpa]

Hate is a strong word. In the LR hunting world theres almost nothing I hate. Except copper projectiles. Haha.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Like I said in my post hunters seem to be happy with the your terminal performance of your bullets. The beauty of cnc or swiss machines is it just takes programming to adjust. Maybe some tooling, feed rate, or other esoteric variables to make changes. So you can make improvements quickly as needed. I've seen you make statements on making improvements. That's a strongpoint. And others have stated that your bullets fit into the operating range of most hunters. So high bc really isn't needed. So I stand by my comment that a baseline bc imo serve you best. As well as illustrations of your terminal performance. That's pretty much the last I'll say on the topic. I'm tired with it. Use it, ignore it, whatever you wish. I truly wish you the best and success. I have no reason not to.

I think what you are saying is that it would be a simple programming adjustment to improve our bc's? I understand you are tired of it so you don't have to answer. I am just not sure what of your advice I should use it ignore.

Thanks for your input.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Then don't!

Rich,

Please let it go.