Hunting with E-bikes

[LkeAF]

First, I want to thank @406muley for a really good civil polite discussion that in a lot of forums would end in diatribe. We can disagree and still present our thoughts for each other to consider. I bet we can have a really good beer talk!

So is a horse fair? They are expensive, require unique requirements most cannot meet. I cannot afford an Ebike either but what I see is a disparity of access that needs to be addressed.

I really don't know what is the right mix for access. We are at a point where accessibility is going to become a PITA that has to be addressed to be fair for all.

Where are these places that have such a disproportionately large percentage of non-motorized trails that e-bikes aren't allowed on? As I said earlier, I live an area with nearly 500 miles of singletrack and probably 80% of it is open to motorized use. And I feel like we have more non-motorized trails than any other place I've been (outside Wilderness areas of course). That is why it seems so "entitled" to me to be having this argument. Because everywhere I've been in the west already has a significant majority of it's roads and trails open to motorized users. I definitely agree with your last statement though. Hell, we even have electric single wheeled skateboard/gyroscope widgets being ridden on our gravel paths and easier trails.

 

[FEENIX]

Seen the same here. I've been involved in Scouting for over 40 years and I've seen as much damage done by horses as done by single track motorized. However the cake was taken by razors/side by sides up at Tizer Lake. One of our Eagle candidates had to build fencing around areas of the lake because razor/side by sides were rooster tailing in the lake/mud.

Crap like that will wind up with NO motorized access to anyone.

We should chat- I'll bet we've crossed paths at camporees/K-M or something.

Yes Sir, we probably did.

I did scouting in Asia, Europe, and here in the US.

One of the best and most memorable was a service project at Omaha Beach in Normandy and High Adventure at Camp Baden Powell near Sherwood Firest in the UK.

 

[bluedog69]

In MO it would be a motorized vehicle. Better not shoot from it.

You would have to be off of it with the motor turned off before shooting.

 

[FEENIX]

I"m pretty sure that I and only I will decide what my opinion is. Do you not agree? If I think a behavior or attitude is entitled, then that is my opinion. There is nothing that you can or will do about that. So, stop trying to be the Thought Police.......

You're the one that is stuck in this mindset. Deal with it and move on.

 

[Montana'eer]

Oh there is bickering about the issue ongoing ad-nauseum.

Wilderness Study Areas Rhetoric Hurting Our Ability to Work Together

Fast-forward to now. Hundreds of miles of trails for mountain bikes and OHVs and hundreds of thousands of acres of snowmobile access have been lost within these areas because of court decisions that have driven agency decisions. Currently in the Bitterroot, mountain bikers, OHV and snowmobile groups have gone to court to try to maintain the access they were permitted to have under the law in 1977. While these users continue to lose access to their favorite places, the forest service continued to reaffirm their original recommendations as recently as 2009. So here we are.

I don't follow the bouncing ball as well as I should, but I hear rumblings from all camps here in Helena.

 

[ButterBean]

I use to place baseball cards on spokes. Wished I had that 1955 Yankees card or 1953 Mickey Mantle card now!

We got fancy and used zip ties

 

[ButterBean]

I"m pretty sure that I and only I will decide what my opinion is. Do you not agree? If I think a behavior or attitude is entitled, then that is my opinion. There is nothing that you can or will do about that. So, stop trying to be the Thought Police.......

Here's another one,66 posts in and he wants to be the Man, Here's some friendly advice, do a little research before you start bumping your gum's, we are a family here and rude behavior is frowned upon

 

[Starlite]

Thanks! I am well aware of that and the total lack of enforceability of that restriction. Unfortunately I have no faith that the person with the 1000w motor will faithfully turn around at the sign that says "limited to 750w or less..." More than likely they will go home and print off a sticker that says "750 watts" slap it over their 1000W sticker and ride on. I trust you have seen a 50 in wide ATV gate? They had to make them to help those that couldn't read.

Your points are well articulated however, it seems that your issues are with law breaking folks and not so much with e-bikes. I believe there are enough rules and not enough enforcement. We'll never be able to rid society of ignorance or stupidity. So..we're left with self policing within club's, communities and one's self as in my case our Province just doesn't have enough resources. In my opinion without a self policing ( reporting all violations) we leave it up to the government's to create more restrictions. We use to have an issue with lots of illegal trail riders until the clubs started reporting and educating folks. Again there will always be rule breaking. Period!!!
For me I'm happy that there are places that I can go with my e-bike that gasoline powered bikes can't. I'm a disabled vet and without the aid of an e-bike I'd never be able to reach places I'd been able to hunt in the past. For me an e-bike is another tool that is, well.. life changing. Because I want to keep the privileges the province has provided I never pass a fault when I'm on the trails. Even if it comes with uncertain risk.
I think reasonable regulation is key. Right now Our Province ( NB (east coast)) has found a good balance. (Probationary period). Currently (last time I checked) an e-bike Can't go faster then 30km/h (unassisted by peddling), motor no bigger then 750watts. Otherwise its treated like any other motorized vehicles when it comes to drinking ETOH or having a loaded gun while in/on the vehicle. If it's motor greater then 750 watts then it's treated the same as a gas powered bike where you must have a license. Must have a trail pass and can only travel on your own property and or NB trails. Unless express permission is granted by a outfitter or land owner. It's still under all the same rules WRT ETOH loaded gun etc;
A question that comes up here all the time is how do you treat an e-bike without a battery attached. It still has a motor.. so? As of today the simple an right answer is it's an e-bike all day every day til the motor is removed. Period.
Anyhow. Just love this thread as it sheds light on state by state regulations and how people can use an ebike. Personally I don't see how an e-bike (750watt motor version) is any more destructive then a horse on a trail. But that's just my thoughts. Horse is a tool just like my e-bike. Horses eat grass/hay and my bike eats sunlight (small solar panel that takes 3 days to change the 48 amp/hr battery )

Anyway just my 2c.
"fail to plan plan to fail"

 

[LkeAF]

Here's another one,66 posts in and he wants to be the Man, Here's some friendly advice, do a little research before you start bumping your gum's, we are a family here and rude behavior is frowned upon

I stated that my opinion and Feenix asked "who are you to decide on that?" Well, frankly, that would be me because it's my opinion. Pretty simple really. Not trying to be rude, but also not going to sit back while someone tells me I can't have a certain opinion about something.

 

[jcc]

A question that comes up here all the time is how do you treat an e-bike without a battery attached. It still has a motor.. so? As of today the simple an right answer is it's an e-bike all day every day til the motor is removed.

You treat it as a wheeled cart because not many people can pedal a 72lb bike on a trail without a motor.

 

[ButterBean]

I stated that my opinion and Feenix asked "who are you to decide on that?" Well, frankly, that would be me because it's my opinion. Pretty simple really. Not trying to be rude, but also not going to sit back while someone tells me I can't have a certain opinion about something.

We are all very well aware of what you said

 

[Muddyboots]

Where are these places that have such a disproportionately large percentage of non-motorized trails that e-bikes aren't allowed on? As I said earlier, I live an area with nearly 500 miles of singletrack and probably 80% of it is open to motorized use. And I feel like we have more non-motorized trails than any other place I've been (outside Wilderness areas of course). That is why it seems so "entitled" to me to be having this argument. Because everywhere I've been in the west already has a significant majority of it's roads and trails open to motorized users. I definitely agree with your last statement though. Hell, we even have electric single wheeled skateboard/gyroscope widgets being ridden on our gravel paths and easier trails.

So are you open to the discussion to limit horse access in wilderness areas? They are a mode of transportation absolutely NO DIFFERENT than any other. They cause damage to the land as well. Well ok, they do leave fertilizer but then again the seeds may be an issue if the hay was not certified. Just like someone who has a 100W bike, I am sure the hay wouldn't be used. There is no reason to give horses a pass on this at all. I look at horses as an entitlement for those who have the luxury of owning them and have SOLE access to back country as result. Again there is a disparity on the modes of transportation on WHERE you can use it. Horses cannot keep getting a pass on this. Or maybe this is what everyone so fearful of?

 

[LkeAF]

So are you open to the discussion to limit horse access in wilderness areas? They are a mode of transportation absolutely NO DIFFERENT than any other. They cause damage to the land as well. Well ok, they do leave fertilizer but then again the seeds may be an issue if the hay was not certified. Just like someone who has a 100W bike, I am sure the hay wouldn't be used. There is no reason to give horses a pass on this at all. I look at horses as an entitlement for those who have the luxury of owning them and have SOLE access to back country as result. Again there is a disparity on the modes of transportation on WHERE you can use it. Horses cannot keep getting a pass on this. Or maybe this is what everyone so fearful of?
View attachment 276547

Absolutely. I 100% agree with everything you just wrote. And I want that bike

 

[406muley]

We are all very well aware of what you said

I didn't see anything more rude than what was posted from anybody else. Just my opinion though. 406muley