How much should I reduce loads? New ADG Brass

[Beluebow]

The target tells the story, not the ES/SD numbers. You are on the right track taking them out to distance. Sometimes a load with a bit higher ES shoots better than one with a low ES. I will always take a tighter group over a lower ES. See what she does at 500 then decide. My .02

 

[LRNut]

I switched to ADG for a 300 RUM and my Edge; didn't change powder charge at all. The biggest thing I noted is when I generated the code on my AMP annealer is was 9 points lower than Nosler brass. When I switched to Lapua brass for one of my .338 LM, the code generated was 1 higher than Nosler. So that implies ADG is softer.

 

[Muledeerhuntingfreak]

Guys, I've heard that due to lower volume, one should reduce the charge by ~10% for new ADG brass. What are your findings?

I have been running 210 Bergers w/Hornady brass, 75.5 grains of VV N565, and GM215M primers, but I want to start with a new lot of ADG brass and try out the 208 ELD-M's. The old load with the 210's was running about 2975 fps out of the Seekins Havak PH2 - 26" factory barrel. Shot well at about 1/2 to 1/3 MOA at extended ranges.

For the new load, I am thinking of starting at 72.5 grains of N565 and then increase by .5 grain increments up to the 75.5 mark. Does this sound like a reasonable plan to check pressure? Any recommendations on how much should I back off at the low side? Thanks in advance for your advice!

I guess I'm in the same boat I don't really understand where you're starting from how many loads have you fired what kind of rifle is this your shooting just because Johnny's Billy's or Bobby shoots one thing doesn't mean that yours will shoot the same I have four 7M REM mags they all shoot a different bullet better than another one or I should say any of the other ones. the Browning shoots the 180 grain Burger The Savage shoots the 162 eldx the weather be shoots 150 grain soft points unbelievable the Browning semi-auto that my brother bought likes the one 50 is also each one of them has a specific load that took a long time to figure out

 

[trout004]

I guess I'm in the same boat I don't really understand where you're starting from how many loads have you fired what kind of rifle is this your shooting just because Johnny's Billy's or Bobby shoots one thing doesn't mean that yours will shoot the same I have four 7M REM mags they all shoot a different bullet better than another one or I should say any of the other ones. the Browning shoots the 180 grain Burger The Savage shoots the 162 eldx the weather be shoots 150 grain soft points unbelievable the Browning semi-auto that my brother bought likes the one 50 is also each one of them has a specific load that took a long time to figure out

This is an old thread from 2021 that has somehow been revived. Rifle was a seekins PH2 300 WM. My main question stemmed in regard to ADG case capacity more than anything as they have the normal "attorney language " recommendation of 10% charge reduction. I have since found great loads for it. Running Berger 215's and N565 pretty easily at about 2920 and great ES and tight groups way out. Thanks for the input.

 

[LRNut]

Narrowing down to these two loads - see photo of the 100 yd groups that I shot tonight. Which would you choose? I think that I'll be shooting a couple of groups at 4-500 yards before I decide.

That zero ES on the bigger group has me thinking I might go that way, but I have never complained about a .15 MOA group either. I am finding some definite inconsistencies with the ES on a lot of the loads that I tested - up to 44 fps over 3 shots with this new ADG brass. The last Hornady brass didn't do that. It could by my cheap chronograph and bad lighting and/or possibly that the new ADG brass isn't supe consistent. I didn't spend time checking volume or weight sorting. Either way I think the elk would hate both of them…

One three shot cloverleaf is great, but statistically, it can happen by chance. Shoot more. As for ES/SD, I can say it matters at longer ranges. The other day I took a shot with my 28N and the velocity was 60 fps lower than what I always see; that bullet hit 3/4 MOA low. On the other hand, a velocity 20 fps slower doesn't necessarily correlate to a lower impact. I shoot several times per day at 760, 906, and 1047. I get my best results with loads that have fairly tight ES. One of these days I am going to create a thread showing every shot I have taken, to include rifle/caliber/est wind/SIG solution and the results. Every one of these shots are "cold bore" shots and waiting at least two hours for the wind to change.

 

[trout004]

One three shot cloverleaf is great, but statistically, it can happen by chance. Shoot more. As for ES/SD, I can say it matters at longer ranges. The other day I took a shot with my 28N and the velocity was 60 fps lower than what I always see; that bullet hit 3/4 MOA low. On the other hand, a velocity 20 fps slower doesn't necessarily correlate to a lower impact. I shoot several times per day at 760, 906, and 1047. I get my best results with loads that have fairly tight ES. One of these days I am going to create a thread showing every shot I have taken, to include rifle/caliber/est wind/SIG solution and the results. Every one of these shots are "cold bore" shots and waiting at least two hours for the wind to change.

For sure, statistically three shot groups can be insignificant for sure, however I tend to take it for what it's worth and most times roll with 3 shot groups at 100 for load workup to eliminate wind error. If the load continues to produce each time out, I know it is a winner. When i have a new barrel or rifle, i spend much time getting to know how it shoots and usually break it in and just have fun shooting up to about 100-150 rounds because they all seem to speed up considerably after break in.

I sight in at 200 with hunting rifles then consistently test in varying conditions out to 1500. Like you, I am lucky to live in a place where I can leave the house and be shooting out to nearly a mile in a few minutes and have great friends that enjoy it too.

I agree that cold bore testing is what matters most for hunting. Many times I will take 2-3 different rifles and shoot two shots each on a 16x16 steel or shoot spots on rocks and record them with the phone through a spotter, then go home and do it the next week. This is great practice for wind and temp/weather data can be obtained at the same time. What I have learned most from this cold-bore shooting is my limitations in a hunting scenario. No or low wind means a definite possibility of longer shots, if needed, for me. Crisscrossing wind patterns up different ridges and terrain cause me issues, but high winds typically mean a person might allow a hunter to sneak closer than normal in many cases.

I agree ES/SD are important, but I have seen times where a rifle/barrel will produce single digits every time and group like a shotgun. Keep us posted on your data thread! Good shooting to ya!

 

[LRNut]

For sure, statistically three shot groups can be insignificant for sure, however I tend to take it for what it's worth and most times roll with 3 shot groups at 100 for load workup to eliminate wind error. If the load continues to produce each time out, I know it is a winner. When i have a new barrel or rifle, i spend much time getting to know how it shoots and usually break it in and just have fun shooting up to about 100-150 rounds because they all seem to speed up considerably after break in.

I sight in at 200 with hunting rifles then consistently test in varying conditions out to 1500. Like you, I am lucky to live in a place where I can leave the house and be shooting out to nearly a mile in a few minutes and have great friends that enjoy it too.

I agree that cold bore testing is what matters most for hunting. Many times I will take 2-3 different rifles and shoot two shots each on a 16x16 steel or shoot spots on rocks and record them with the phone through a spotter, then go home and do it the next week. This is great practice for wind and temp/weather data can be obtained at the same time. What I have learned most from this cold-bore shooting is my limitations in a hunting scenario. No or low wind means a definite possibility of longer shots, if needed, for me. Crisscrossing wind patterns up different ridges and terrain cause me issues, but high winds typically mean a person might allow a hunter to sneak closer than normal in many cases.

I agree ES/SD are important, but I have seen times where a rifle/barrel will produce single digits every time and group like a shotgun. Keep us posted on your data thread! Good shooting to ya!

I am with you when it comes to load development: three shots. If it groups, great. If not, two more shots won't shrink the group. I have also observed that if a small increase in charge (1/2) between two 3 shot groups creates a dramatic difference in group size, the smaller group is not likely to be repeated. These days I spend more time with OAL than I do charge weight - IME that matters more than charge.

 

[trout004]

I am with you when it comes to load development: three shots. If it groups, great. If not, two more shots won't shrink the group. I have also observed that if a small increase in charge (1/2) between two 3 shot groups creates a dramatic difference in group size, the smaller group is not likely to be repeated. These days I spend more time with OAL than I do charge weight - IME that matters more than charge.

Agreed! My proof defiace 7RM that I built stacked 175 elites inside 1 moa during pressure testing all the way through about 5 grains of differing charge weights - like 15-20 shots. I was not upset about that, so i picked a charge at the 75% range with decent velocity and no pressure signs and went from there. I usually grab that rifle from the safe when it is time to go elk and deer hunting

 

[M1A1ABRAMS]

This is an old thread from 2021 that has somehow been revived. Rifle was a seekins PH2 300 WM. My main question stemmed in regard to ADG case capacity more than anything as they have the normal "attorney language " recommendation of 10% charge reduction. I have since found great loads for it. Running Berger 215's and N565 pretty easily at about 2920 and great ES and tight groups way out. Thanks for the input.

May be a old thread but was still interesting to this fairly new reloader.