How much should I reduce loads? New ADG Brass

[trout004]

Thanks for the info guys. Those are great ideas. I don't have QL, but it is tempting! I actually enjoy load workup a lot. I'm trying to figure out how I can make it a job . It gets me out of the house and away from reality, which is getting harder to do now days. Being that I have a lot of 200 new brass that I want to use going forward, I ended up loading some pressure test rounds and will be recording velocity as soon as the temps get above zero. My starting load will be about 3 grains under what the last one was, which equates to about 4%. I understand that case volume plays a big factor in pressure. I was mainly looking at a starting point being that there just isn't as much data for VV powders as compared to some others. Overall, the combination of new ADG brass and VV N565 powder had me wondering exactly where I should start.

 

[Buckys]

Can the QL method also be done with (the free) Gordon's Reloading Tool?

Gordons reloading tool.

Downloaded this a few weeks ago and been playing with it to develop loads for 450Marlin in bolt action. Way outside any official reloading data, but no pressure signs and I should according to the software be able to push another 1,5grains into it before it's past what a Winchester M70 can...

www.longrangehunting.com

 

[Mike D Texas]

Can the QL method also be done with (the free) Gordon's Reloading Tool?

Gordons reloading tool.

Downloaded this a few weeks ago and been playing with it to develop loads for 450Marlin in bolt action. Way outside any official reloading data, but no pressure signs and I should according to the software be able to push another 1,5grains into it before it's past what a Winchester M70 can...

www.longrangehunting.com

Should be able to. I finally downloaded GRT. I need to play with it to see how it compares to QL.

 

[trout004]

Hey, thanks for the all of the help everyone. For what it's worth, I went out and shot the new ADG brass with the 208 ELD-M's last night. It was 15 degrees with no wind. I was the only one dumb enough to head to the shooting range, except for a mountain lion that came through earlier in the day.

I am posting a photo of the target showing charge weight of N565 and velocity data that I captured and some photos of the brass. This gives me a good starting point. All brass was just neck-sized only out of the box from ADG and trimmed at 2.610" to even it all up. As you can see, load #6 load looks like a decent start, but I am probably going to base my load development between that 73.4 - 74.2 grain mark. The #6 load was getting a little hot and starting to shine up the brass a bit. I don't want to push it to the max as there is no need IMO. For what it's worth, this rifle has always seemed to group best in that 2930 fps mark regardless of the bullet choice.

I know that these are 2-shot groups, but at least it gives me a point to start. I figured shooting two was better than just shooting once although I was mainly checking the brass for pressure signs. *This worked well for me, but could be different for you. Safe shooting out there, guys and gals. Now I gotta check out that GRT!

 

[trout004]

Narrowing down to these two loads - see photo of the 100 yd groups that I shot tonight. Which would you choose? I think that I'll be shooting a couple of groups at 4-500 yards before I decide.

That zero ES on the bigger group has me thinking I might go that way, but I have never complained about a .15 MOA group either. I am finding some definite inconsistencies with the ES on a lot of the loads that I tested - up to 44 fps over 3 shots with this new ADG brass. The last Hornady brass didn't do that. It could by my cheap chronograph and bad lighting and/or possibly that the new ADG brass isn't supe consistent. I didn't spend time checking volume or weight sorting. Either way I think the elk would hate both of them…

 

[Recon$$]

If you doubt the chrono just group them long. I'm about to do the same thing with a rifle because the kestrel isn't quite adding up and that data will fix my issues.

 

[257 STW]

Narrowing down to these two loads - see photo of the 100 yd groups that I shot tonight. Which would you choose? I think that I'll be shooting a couple of groups at 4-500 yards before I decide.

That zero ES on the bigger group has me thinking I might go that way, but I have never complained about a .15 MOA group either. I am finding some definite inconsistencies with the ES on a lot of the loads that I tested - up to 44 fps over 3 shots with this new ADG brass. The last Hornady brass didn't do that. It could by my cheap chronograph and bad lighting and/or possibly that the new ADG brass isn't supe consistent. I didn't spend time checking volume or weight sorting. Either way I think the elk would hate both of them

The target tells the story, not the ES/SD numbers. You are on the right track taking them out to distance. Sometimes a load with a bit higher ES shoots better than one with a low ES. I will always take a tighter group over a lower ES. See what she does at 500 then decide. My .02

 

[QuietTexan]

Which would you choose?

Was this the first shots on this brass, or were they reloaded?

I put zero faith in muzzle velocity stats on the first go, the brass moves so much it's not necessarily repeatable the second time out, and 3 shots isn't enough for confidence in the data.

 

[trout004]

Was this the first shots on this brass, or were they reloaded?

I put zero faith in muzzle velocity stats on the first go, the brass moves so much it's not necessarily repeatable the second time out, and 3 shots isn't enough for confidence in the data.

Yes this was the first loading. I got way more consistent results with Hornady brass last time on a new loading, but the ADG isn't as forgivable first time with ES all over the map, however this load will be used for hunting probably under 800 yards. I'm going to test long and see what happens. If everything is still too erratic I'll shoulder bump the once fired and roll with those. My hope was to get through this lot of 200 new brass, but I may have to deviate from the original plan.

Next step long range testing to verify

 

[Dr. Mac]

In my testing for 7PRC, internal case volume for Hornady and ADG was the same at 83.4 grains of water. The ADG brass seemed to be much stouter and higher quality. Peterson was high quality also, but only held 80 grains of water, so I would reduce charges accordingly. YMMV.

 

[Allen Lone wolf]

Narrowing down to these two loads - see photo of the 100 yd groups that I shot tonight. Which would you choose? I think that I'll be shooting a couple of groups at 4-500 yards before I decide.

That zero ES on the bigger group has me thinking I might go that way, but I have never complained about a .15 MOA group either. I am finding some definite inconsistencies with the ES on a lot of the loads that I tested - up to 44 fps over 3 shots with this new ADG brass. The last Hornady brass didn't do that. It could by my cheap chronograph and bad lighting and/or possibly that the new ADG brass isn't supe consistent. I didn't spend time checking volume or weight sorting. Either way I think the elk would hate both of them…

If you didn't have inconsistent ES with the Hornady brass it most likely wouldn't be the chronograph

 

[AZShooter]

I can only comment on 338 RUM ADG brass vs Remington 338 RUM brass.

Purchased 100 pc of ADG for a new 338 RUM. Its weight was very similar to the 338 RUM Rem brass. ADG mentions that their brass may be heavier and loads should be reduced. Didn't find there was much difference with this brass when compared to Sierra's load data.

Custom reamer FB of .128" 26" 1 in 10" barrel


I used Sierra's load data for Remington brass, RL-25 and the 300 gr Sierra HPBT Matchking. Sierra listed powder charges to get rounded velocities like 2400, 2500, 2600 etc. Their starting load is 76.9 gr, The following loads are what I tried:


77 gr 2420 fps / Sierra 76.9 gr 2400 fps
80 gr 2501 fps / Sierra 80.6 gr 2500 fps
82 gr 2566 fps / Sierra no data
84 gr 2618 fps / Sierra 84.4 gr 2600 fps
86 gr 2675 fps / Sierra no data First shot had no issues, second shot had a mild clicker to open bolt.
88 gr 2733 fps / Sierra 88 gr 2700 fps Only fired one shot some resistance in opening bolt, a hard clicker
Stopped at 88/ Sierra listed a max load of 89.9 grs for 2750 fps

I concluded that if ADG brass did have less capacity than Remington brass, it was very little. Your results may be vary.

 

[BrentM]

Guys, I've heard that due to lower volume, one should reduce the charge by ~10% for new ADG brass. What are your findings?

I have been running 210 Bergers w/Hornady brass, 75.5 grains of VV N565, and GM215M primers, but I want to start with a new lot of ADG brass and try out the 208 ELD-M's. The old load with the 210's was running about 2975 fps out of the Seekins Havak PH2 - 26" factory barrel. Shot well at about 1/2 to 1/3 MOA at extended ranges.

For the new load, I am thinking of starting at 72.5 grains of N565 and then increase by .5 grain increments up to the 75.5 mark. Does this sound like a reasonable plan to check pressure? Any recommendations on how much should I back off at the low side? Thanks in advance for your advice!

Did read all the comments so likely this is same info. ADG is about the same volume as Hornady but the brass is different, harder. When annealing lapau, adg, etc compared to hornady it takes a considerable time difference. Now, as far as load, I have and do use the same load in several cartridges with adv vs hornady. My personal opinion is that I would back off 1-1.5 and test fps and pressure compared to hornady.

 

[jmcarrol]

My 7RM dropped 2 grains FWIW. I started at -4 and came up.