How fast did weapons and ammo technology really advance and when did it happen?

[Swamplord]

The Military is always looking at civilian progress in metallic cartridge developments, recent cartridge adoptions show that

While they may have stuff like full auto and explosive gizmos they are not more advanced in cartridge firepower as some of the wildcatters are, especially in the ELR competition world and they are keeping close tabs on all gun websites and social media gun groups/pages, we provide them the data and ideas with our escapdes in long range hunting and extreme long range shooting, nothing escapes close scrutiny

 

[Muddyboots]

Dang, you caught me

 

[Bob Wright]

I was fortunate to see the evolution from manual and cam automatic machines to the first electrical switched automatics, NC, CNC, ECM, EDM, CMM, waterjet, laser cutting and welding. And in the 5 years I left it, who knows now.
Amazing advancements in 40 years. Much of it used in firearm manufacturing today. That certainly played a role in advancing firearm production and reducing variation.

 

[Don A Parsons]

I'll share the graph with my friend...

He was part of the blip after 1980 when he got his name on the queens plate 2 X's...

It was the only time in history when the line reached those heights...

He funded his own way when competing in the Bisley... he came in at 271 of the top 1600 shooters back then...

Deffinaly lots of changes in the hunting catagory over the last 10 ish years,,, some folks are really pushing the limits...

Thanks for sharing,,, I know my old time friend will grin from ear to ear knowing that he was right up there competing with the best the world had to offer...

Don

 

[Muddyboots]

20 years ago none of us none smiths would have even thought of building our own rifles. Commonplace now and even with exceptional accuracy. The advancement of materials and knowledge across the board inside the shooters realm is astonishing not only in firearms but in reloading. Just look at the advancement in reloading techniques and the QC of the performance of the ammo, unheard of 20 years ago. I believe the next big advancement will be in loading especially in the brass or non brass going forward.

 

[BallisticsGuy]

So is the next evolution the "smart" rifle that any bozo can pick up push a button, target acquired, calculated, rifle self adjusts for atmospheric conditions, elevation, temperature and so on? Bullet becomes "smart" and tracks to acquired target regardless of aim? Wait a minute, I think that was in a movie few years back? Then again Star Trek devices are now commonplace.

I have some experience here. I spent quite a lot of time in development of something of the kind almost a decade ago. As far as I gather the military hasn't so far liked very much the "smart" small arms or "smart" ammunition for non-crew served weapons because they just aren't adding much (actually usually subtracting) in the way of capability. Ignoring the rifles for the moment, small arms projectiles (I'm including .50bmg here) are just too small to put electronics into and to expect them to be able to do much and putting that much cost into even a .50cal projectile and weapon system simply doesn't do enough more than a pile of plain ol' .50cal bullets fired by a basic machine gunner to justify the cost. This is visible in the closing of the Exacto project and the continuance of the Excalibur project. They're almost the same thing conceptually but one is .50bmg and the other is artillery.

TrackingPoint "smart" rifles are (or were last time I looked, they've since become passe' and I'm not developing anything in the arena right now so I don't keep up anymore) limited to the fully supersonic range of the cartridge not to mention fundamental issues with the TrackingPoint system that just won't play in a lot of institutional settings. Wind is a HUGE problem. It's not one that can't be solved, it's one that I and so far nobody else has been unable to get a sufficiently capable solution into a small enough package to be helpful while retaining any kind of durability.

The dealiebopper I was developing was conceptually similar to a smart rifle but it didn't actually do much for the shooter other than math. It included a number of technologies that were otherwise on their way and had been used for a long time in other areas but hadn't come to market yet in a weapons oriented version. Some of those technologies have over the years come to the shooting market in other forms. This isn't to say that the thing I built would even be recognizable as anything in particular or that it achieved anything particular. It looked a bit like the DeLorean in Back to the Future 3, kind of a hodge podge of oddly large electronics attached in a visually unpleasing way to a barely visible rifle. What it really managed to do was demonstrate the power and the limitations of embedded microelectronics in small arms weapon systems at the time though a few of the component projects took on lives of their own.

In the end, cost benefit analysis wins and I don't see anything more capable than TrackingPoint coming out especially because any competent instructor could take nearly any fool off the street and in a few days have them able to independently engage targets at long range with a suitable scoped "dumb" rifle.

 

[73driver]

1992 for me is a pivot point. That is the year Winchester was able to re-introduce pre 64 style rifle referred to as the "Model 70 Classic". Its has nothing to do with Winchester or the Model 70 but everything to do with the technology in CNC machining that allowed it.

 

[Muddyboots]

C'mon now DNA tracking in a projectile is all over the SCI-FI channel so it must be true. We haven't talked about drone weaponry which is crazy in the thought that someone in CA could be flying a drone on other side of world. Stay aloft for a day? The level of electronics and weapons on the drones are escalating as we speak. Just look at our own little world of personal drones and how it has changed scouting a property without even leaving scent. The concepts are accelerating based upon experience and advancements in encapsulated technology faster than anyone could have imagined 10 years ago.

 

[montana west]

smokles powder, mauser actions, Charles Newton.

 

[Mike Matteson]

Thank you for your research and documentation . Very interesting reading .
In my opinion , from a hunter's , and steel-clanger's perspective , I think that the development of laser rangefinders with internal ballistics computers is the most recent noticeable step forward in long range shooting .

DMP25-06

The quest for more accurate load, and distance, has really set the paces. Other saw what people wanted or needed, built the equipment to do the task. I have been hand loading for 58 years now. It's the quest that made it happen, and will be on going. I hardly shoot anything that factory loaded. A new rifle or pistol I hand load from the start. 22 ammo is the only thing I purchase off the shelves.
SSS
Mike

 

[sp6x6]

Military is looking at Textrons polmer cases for small arms and machine guns for the weight savings

 

[Quintus]

Fascinating conversation. And thought provoking. I wonder how much the economic 'well being', expendable time, and expendable income had to do with the post WWI spike in performance? The market had the time and the money to take the mechanical and chemical advancements from the war time race to find a better way to kill men, and re-direct it to put holes closer together on paper. What amazes me, and what I find more useful, is the recent ability to hit a target at not just 1000 yards, but any distance from the muzzle to 1000 yards. It used to be hard to get close on the distance. Then you had to do the math right. Then you had to get the wind right. Then you had to fight through your poor shooting position and mechanics cause you didn't attend a shooting school or have YouTube to watch 5,000 instructionals on fire control. Even if you managed all that, it was tough to find 10 out of 100 bullets the same in a box and brass were worse. Then your powder on a given day may give you stretched primer pockets, or you may have a soot covered neck. I would say that tech over the last 15 years has had as big an effect on proficiency as the machining has had on accuracy. Very difficult to quantify "proficiency" but a range finder and a ballistics app makes Jack a deadly boy, where he used to be a guy that could hit a pie plate at 75 yards and there you go. Hopefully things don't get too much better or it will take the fun right out of it. I suppose the plasma laser pulse gun is next with no need to calculate drop or account for wind.

 

[BallisticsGuy]

Hopefully things don't get too much better or it will take the fun right out of it. I suppose the plasma laser pulse gun is next with no need to calculate drop or account for wind.

Unfortunately, I think we're actually already there in a way. Things can't actually get much better. The graph tells us that and the underlying data show it too. Given the trend in team scores in Bisley I estimate that we'll see more than one team post a perfect score in the next few years. As soon as more than 1 team posts a perfect score, the game has to change or it's broken. If everyone is making a perfect score, it's not very fun to make a perfect score.

When I got into PRS-y kind of shooting I came in via Palma & extreme range (1000yrds-2000yrds) horsing around & high power Metallic Silhouette. Palma and Silhouette aren't money games yet and the rules help keep it from being an issue but by the time I had jumped into PRS style matches they had definitely started down the money-game road in a big way. Now, it's basically a money game but only as far as money is a barrier to competitiveness. If you want to be properly competitive in PRS/NRL you're going to need about 5-8 grand in equipment and supplies and then the matches are pretty expensive to enter. My last state championship in Silhouette had a $50 entry fee. A typical PRS or NRL points match is 4-5x more that much. To be competitive in Metallic Silhouette you need about 1500 bucks worth of stuff and 20-50 bucks for a typical match to be fashionably equipped but you could do the sport with under 1000 bucks worth of gear. The fun has been chased right out of it and caused a lot of guys to simply stop going.

Wind would actually cause a distortion of the beam if it's strong enough. Could potentially reduce effectiveness a good bit depending of the total energy, size and pulse width of the beam.

 

[Quintus]

Wind would actually cause a distortion of the beam if it's strong enough. Could potentially reduce effectiveness a good bit depending of the total energy, size and pulse width of the beam.

I will take your word for it Sir, but imagine what that type of wind would do to a bullet over like distance. I'm sure the beam generation module would be able to compensate to a degree by adjusting the pulse width and energy while only slightly compromising rate of fire and fuel cell life.