Hornady ELD-X Official Thread

[TXAoudadKlr]

I emailed Hornady and asked them about the 225 ELD in the works. They wouldn't come out and say there was one in the works.
But they said if there was, it would probably need a 1-9 twist..
At first they said they had no 225 ELD in the works, until I told them I heard Dave Tooley used it in the the 1000 yard nationals. Then they sorta confessed... Sorta...

Projected BC is .745 G1

ELD-M or ELD-X? Either way sounds interesting and will be a nice addition for .30cal shooters

 

[gohring3006]

ELD-M or ELD-X? Either way sounds interesting and will be a nice addition for .30cal shooters

Not sure yet, more than likely a match bullet. But I could be wrong.

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

I was finally able to get out and do some testing with my semi custom 6.5 Creedmoor built on a savage action with a 26in Criterion pre fit varmint contour in a HS-Precision M24 stock. I found the 143 Eld-X to not be depth sensitive in my rifle so I loaded them about .005 off the lands. I first wanted to get a load with RL-17 but I could get nothing better than .75 moa. I switched to H4350 and immediately it went to .5 moa with 41.5 grains. I then loaded some at 42 and 42.5 and I found a very promising load at 42 grains producing a .323 moa group. I will test it again and tweak my powder charge to see if it tightens up.

 

[WildRose]

ELD-M or ELD-X? Either way sounds interesting and will be a nice addition for .30cal shooters

I'm wondering though if we aren't going to need to start looking seriously at 1:9 or 1:9.5 twist barrels to shoot these heavy for caliber .30's to get the best accuracy out of them.

You can only go so long before you exceed practical stability limits in any caliber.

Looking for example at Berger's stability/twist rate calculator for the 230gr at sea level you have only marginal stability with a 1:10 twist at 2650fps and it's just into the stable range at 2800fps. I'm not sure you can safely push it that fast in the .300wm without going to a 28" barrel so you can utilize very slow burning powders like H1000 and H869 or BMG.

For those having trouble with the heavy for caliber bullets I wonder how many of them have slower twist barrels than they actually need for their given bullet at the velocities they are shooting.

RPM's are what stabilize bullets and that is a function of both muzzle velocity and twist rate and if you can't stabilize a bullet adequately you just can't get it to shoot accurately.

 

[WildRose]

duplicate

 

[elkaholic]

I'm wondering though if we aren't going to need to start looking seriously at 1:9 or 1:9.5 twist barrels to shoot these heavy for caliber .30's to get the best accuracy out of them.

You can only go so long before you exceed practical stability limits in any caliber.

Looking for example at Berger's stability/twist rate calculator for the 230gr at sea level you have only marginal stability with a 1:10 twist at 2650fps and it's just into the stable range at 2800fps. I'm not sure you can safely push it that fast in the .300wm without going to a 28" barrel so you can utilize very slow burning powders like H1000 and H869 or BMG.

For those having trouble with the heavy for caliber bullets I wonder how many of them have slower twist barrels than they actually need for their given bullet at the velocities they are shooting.

RPM's are what stabilize bullets and that is a function of both muzzle velocity and twist rate and if you can't stabilize a bullet adequately you just can't get it to shoot accurately.

I agree with this. The old way of thinking was JUST ENOUGH twist. I am not sure that just enough was always quite enough! A little extra twist usually won't hurt you but "not quite enough" will hurt every time. This is especially true as the ranges keep getting farther.....Rich

 

[gohring3006]

I'm wondering though if we aren't going to need to start looking seriously at 1:9 or 1:9.5 twist barrels to shoot these heavy for caliber .30's to get the best accuracy out of them.

You can only go so long before you exceed practical stability limits in any caliber.

Looking for example at Berger's stability/twist rate calculator for the 230gr at sea level you have only marginal stability with a 1:10 twist at 2650fps and it's just into the stable range at 2800fps. I'm not sure you can safely push it that fast in the .300wm without going to a 28" barrel so you can utilize very slow burning powders like H1000 and H869 or BMG.

For those having trouble with the heavy for caliber bullets I wonder how many of them have slower twist barrels than they actually need for their given bullet at the velocities they are shooting.

RPM's are what stabilize bullets and that is a function of both muzzle velocity and twist rate and if you can't stabilize a bullet adequately you just can't get it to shoot accurately.

I agree, the 30 Cals are capable of very high BC bullets. But the cartridge capacity and current popular twist rates limit them. If we get into the larger cases, 250 grain bullets with .800 BCs would be absolute hammers..

 

[TXAoudadKlr]

I'm wondering though if we aren't going to need to start looking seriously at 1:9 or 1:9.5 twist barrels to shoot these heavy for caliber .30's to get the best accuracy out of them.

You can only go so long before you exceed practical stability limits in any caliber.

Looking for example at Berger's stability/twist rate calculator for the 230gr at sea level you have only marginal stability with a 1:10 twist at 2650fps and it's just into the stable range at 2800fps. I'm not sure you can safely push it that fast in the .300wm without going to a 28" barrel so you can utilize very slow burning powders like H1000 and H869 or BMG.

For those having trouble with the heavy for caliber bullets I wonder how many of them have slower twist barrels than they actually need for their given bullet at the velocities they are shooting.

RPM's are what stabilize bullets and that is a function of both muzzle velocity and twist rate and if you can't stabilize a bullet adequately you just can't get it to shoot accurately.

I get what you're saying.

Bigger magnums will get away with 1:10 for the most part but to keep the stability up at longer distances or for smaller 30's to reach stability a faster twist will be needed.

I'm looking at a ~1:8.5 for when the 245 EOL comes out to take advantage of the case capacity I have. I'm almost sure I could do it with a 1:9 but I'd like a bit higher stability factor for longer shots. For the 300 win mag build I'm planing out, I'm going with a 1:10 and plan to shoot the 208 ELD-X and 215 Berger.

 

[WildRose]

I agree, the 30 Cals are capable of very high BC bullets. But the cartridge capacity and current popular twist rates limit them. If we get into the larger cases, 250 grain bullets with .800 BCs would be absolute hammers..

Yep, I'm thinking that ideally in the future we probably need to go to Rum Length magazine capacity even for the 300wm and similar cartridges and faster twists than 1:10. Doing so would make life a heck of a lot easier on us. LR Hunting is here to stay and the bullet manufacturers are really doing their part to satisfy the market and if we'll do our part I think we can really make the most out of the future opportunities.

 

[WildRose]

I get what you're saying.

Bigger magnums will get away with 1:10 for the most part but to keep the stability up at longer distances or for smaller 30's to reach stability a faster twist will be needed.

I'm looking at a ~1:8.5 for when the 245 EOL comes out to take advantage of the case capacity I have. I'm almost sure I could do it with a 1:9 but I'd like a bit higher stability factor for longer shots. For the 300 win mag build I'm planing out, I'm going with a 1:10 and plan to shoot the 208 ELD-X and 215 Berger.

Well thankfully Berger has put their stability calculator online free of charge which will take a great deal of the guesswork out of it for us in the future.

I don't shoot their bullets except in some factory ammo but I certainly appreciate all they have done for us resource wise and more than anything for making the other bullet manufacturers get on the stick and start competing for our business.

I have a long and great relationship with the guys at Hornady but if it were not for Berger I seriously doubt they would have ever gone to the lengths they have to develop the ELD series of bullets or the doppler system for evaluating real world BC's at range.

 

[coyotezapper]

FWIW Called Hornady Tech and asked what twist bbl they recommend for a 300WM and their 212 ELD-X and he suggested 1-9".

 

[WildRose]

FWIW Called Hornady Tech and asked what twist bbl they recommend for a 300WM and their 212 ELD-X and he suggested 1-9".

That's about what I'd have guessed. Even at Rum speeds the 1:10 is getting into marginal stability territory with the 210 and higher weight bullets.

 

[TXAoudadKlr]

I finally managed to remember to weigh that round from my cousin's aoudad. It weighed 41.4 grains it started at 143. I couldn't find my micrometer but I guess it to be expanded to around .5" it's pretty mangled though.

 

[WildRose]

I finally managed to remember to weigh that round from my cousin's aoudad. It weighed 41.4 grains it started at 143. I couldn't find my micrometer but I guess it to be expanded to around .5" it's pretty mangled though.

Thanks for the update.

I was disappointed when I called them shortly after the ELD-X was announced and found out that in fact they were not making this a bonded bullet but had chosen rather to use the same cannelure as the Interlock. As a result these bullets definitely do separate jacket/core with some frequency with high velocity impact speeds.

This gets us right back to "There ain't no perfect bullets that perform the same at both high and low velocity".

I know it is more expensive to make bonded bullets vs any other method of joining jacket to core but their Interbond was as as close as any I have ever seen to giving us that Holy Grail of terminal performance at a broad range of velocities.

I can only hope that enough people complain about the separation that at some point they rethink it and make these in a bonded form.

Now if they would use both the cannelure AND the same bonding process as the Interbond it would be a truly amazing bullet.

If they don't do it, someone else will as again competition drives manufacturers to excel and even more importantly, drives them to respond to customer demand.